Episode 54 – Julie Jones | Productivity Ninja & Scuba Diver

We are currently in the throes of COVID-19 – Coronavirus – and in this episode my discussion with Julie Jones is centred around how this virus could help us all innovate, create better work environments, and utilise productivity in a much better way.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Julie, welcome to the podcast. I’m so looking forward to chatting to you. I mean, we talk all the time, but it’s great to get on you on the podcast. How are you?

Julie Jones  

I’m wonderful. Thanks, Murray. How are you today?

Murray Guest  

I’m doing pretty good. I mean, we were chatting OFF AIR about what’s going on in the world right now we have, obviously a pandemic, which is in the news quite a lot. And it’s impacting people in lots of different ways. What’s the the sense that you’re getting? And how you feeling about it at the moment?

Julie Jones  

Yeah, it’s been a really interesting time, I guess. I see so much happening around the world. As you know, I’m a scuba diver, I spend a lot of time underwater, and I’m seeing things changing under the water as well. So the oceans are seeing effects from obviously the bushfires we’ve had here, from the floods, from all of the temperature changes. So we’ve had really weird temperatures lately. 16, up to 24 degrees. So it’s really affecting everything. And I think that as human beings, we don’t realize that all of these systems are interrelated. So it’s really interesting to watch what happens when a pandemic is is kind of happening. The pandemic itself, I think it’s going to have far reaching consequences on all of us in terms of how we live our lives day to day. And I hope it will take us back to a bit of a grassroots movement, you know, some really basic stuff around how we work, where we work, and how we communicate with others. I think it’s really interesting to watch that play out. Yeah, you’re right. I think it’s interesting around some of the shifts of behavior, in a good way. I like that you’re saying we hope it’s something that inspires people to think about the way that we connect and work with each other, even how we travel to and from work as well. And we’re going to talk in this conversation shortly about your passion and knowledge around productivity. Because I think there’s so much to learn from that around the the isolation and working remotely and how we can learn from that so that we can still feel connected and be productive and feel inspired as well. Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s a real, as you say, passion area of mine. So yeah, fire away. You’ve got some questions? Of course, always do now. But I want to get back to this whole scuba diving silliness. And I say that because we have different passions, of course. Now, why scuba diving for you? Well, I’ve always had a bit of a thing going on for biology and animals and science. And I started scuba diving, when I was about 18. Just sort of on holiday, I’d go and have a quick dip under the water and see what was there. And just found this world so exhilarating and exciting. I didn’t dive much during the years when my kids were little. But then as they grew a bit older, I started to get back into it again. And now I’m diving pretty much every week, I just find it the most wonderful place to be from an exploration point of view. But also, it’s just the most calm and wonderful place to be I find that when I’m in the zone, I’m completely in the zone. And it’s an amazing way to manage stress, which is obviously a really important thing for our society and culture today to be able to control stress and be able to, to work through how to manage our own physical reaction to that environment.

Murray Guest  

And I remember a conversation we had some time ago about when you go underwater when you are scuba diving and you see a shark and I was coming from the angle of Oh, I’d hate to see a shark because they’re so scary and you’re like I love seeing sharks.

Julie Jones  

Absolutely. Yeah, we don’t often see big dangerous sharks. We see small, beautiful sharks, we see sharks like gray nurses, we see swell sharks, we see Wobbygongs, Port Jackson sharks, and they’re all just the most amazing creatures, they’ve evolved over, you know, millions and millions of years. They’ve been around for a long, long time, a lot longer than us. And they are apex predators. They’re really there for the purposes of keeping the oceans healthy. And the biggest sharks, even the scary ones. I’ve dived with the tiger sharks over in Fiji and they are the most amazing creatures. And they’re there for a reason. And they are really not there to eat us. So it is exhilarating. It’s wonderful to see these creatures in their natural environment. And yeah, just I don’t know, I think once you’ve done it, you get the sense of or that comes through from that, rather than any fear because you start to learn more about them. And you understand I think it’s like anything, isn’t it? When we don’t understand something, we’re fearful. It’s a natural human reaction. So once you know more, and you start to educate yourself on who they are and what they are, and it becomes a lot less frightening.

Murray Guest  

I also wonder about that sense of our place in the world as humans and how maybe how small or insignificant we are when there’s that whole bigger world around us, as you were saying earlier about how much of obviously the world is covered by the ocean, seven tenths and do you you sometimes get that sense of, I don’t know that that sense of how big the world is, or even how much is going on around us that we just don’t know about.

Julie Jones  

I absolutely always and specifically and especially underwater, when you’re there yet, it’s you are such an observer, I do a lot of underwater photography too. And I try to capture those moments of, you’re looking at tiny ecosystems, you’re looking at huge ecosystems, you’re looking at how different species interact with each other. And it’s, it’s really quite fascinating. And I guess I feel really blessed that I can see that in such a way. You feel tiny, you feel really insignificant in that space, and the zone of the blue that stretches on forever. And it’s even more, I guess, I mean, it’s unknown, we I think we’ve been to the moon more than we’ve been up into space than we’ve we’ve actually explored our oceans, there’s so much more to know about what’s under the ocean, and the interaction that we have with it. So it’s really important to understand that otherwise, we you know, we damage the oceans, we damage the whole world.

Murray Guest  

So speaking of that interaction, and at the start of our conversation, you were talking about some of the changes you’ve been seeing, what do you see is going on? And what are your messages, I guess, that you’ve got about what you’re saying? 

Julie Jones  

Yeah so we’re seeing really weird stuff happening at the moment. So with all that, obviously, in Australia, the fires the floods, we’ve had temperature fluctuations, as I mentioned, we’re seeing things like we do every couple of months, we do what’s called a sea slugs census. And sea slugs are these tiny little creatures, they can be quite large, but mainly, they’re very small, sometimes really tiny, like half a fraction of the size of your fingernail. And these little guys, we’ve seen, you know, 200 – 300 species in the area that we’re diving up at Port Stephens in Nelson Bay. Yet yesterday, the census, normally I would get probably maybe 30 species out of the 300 or so that have ever been recorded in that area, yesterday, so forth. So we’re seeing big changes in the biodiversity, the number of species that we see the actual, we should be seeing, like at this particular point in time, masses of eggs hatching. So I guess I’m wondering whether there are changes in whether it’s the water temperature, whether it’s the freshwater coming into the salt water zones, that are impacting a lot of the number of species as well as the actual number of individuals in those species. And that impacts right through the food chain. And we see things like you know, jellyfish blooms, which are a sign of an unhealthy ocean, things like that, we see just such big changes in the oceans at the moment, which impact everything, the health of our whole planet.

Murray Guest  

And so as people listening to our conversation, when we consider then our impact on the ocean, I mean, I think about plastic and waste in the ocean, as you know, one of those big things that you see. But what I’m getting from this conversation, and I have people listening to is there’s all those other things we do which impact in the ocean that we just don’t even see as well.

Absolutely, yeah. So all of the toxins, and anything that we do around the water’s edge, things like our excavation for building sites, that kind of stuff, topsoil, erosion, runoff, chemicals running into the water. There’s so many elements that impact the oceans that we don’t even think of. So yeah, there’s waste, and there’s plastic. And there’s those kinds of things happening. But there’s so much more than that. I know, in our local area here at Terrigal, there’s a lot of sewage that’s going into the ocean at the moment, which makes the water dangerous. And there are toxic algal blooms, things like that that happen. So yeah, any of the things that we do on land impact the oceans, whether we think about that consciously or not, we are having an impact on every part of our ecosystem. Sorry, we’re getting very deep.

Murray Guest  

No, but I think it’s a really important discussion. I know how passionate you are about not just the activity of scuba diving, but the environment you do it in, in the ocean. And I think it’s an important awareness that we all need to have, as you said, there’s the day to day things that we can do, whether it’s the as we, you know, developing a property, for example, and how are we making sure that secure any toxins or waste going into the water? But obviously, there’s a big link here to, as you said earlier about the temperature fluctuations and climate change. And what are we doing to impact climate change to reduce that impacts so that there isn’t that foreign effect, obviously, to the oceans?

Julie Jones  

Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s going to be very interesting as we see how the pandemic plays out too. As we reduce the amount of air travel, we reduce the amount probably of travel, even on trains and things like that. And a reduction in our carbon footprint footprint potentially while all of us are in in lockdown, if that happens, it’s going to be interesting to see how we impact the planet in that way.

Murray Guest  

I saw a story the other day that the space station has identified a reduction in air pollution in Italy and China, due to the reduction of travel and business.

Julie Jones  

Yeah, isn’t that interesting?

Murray Guest  

Which obviously links to our conversation we’re having shortly around productivity and the, I guess the benefits that we can still have and the real benefit, it can be from working in these potential lockdown, but certainly working from home in different situations as well. But before we talk about that we’ve known each other for I’m trying to think, Julie, it’s got to be over 20 years easy.

It is over 20 I think I’ve been in Australia now 27 years? I think so. Yeah, I think and I was down in Victoria for five, six. About 22 years I think, Murray since we first met.

Murray Guest  

Yep. And so you used to be a marketing manager at Master Foods, which is a part of Mars Incorporated. And I had a role in quality. And I think we got along most of the times, I think quality and marketing generally get along don’t they, I think?

Julie Jones  

Generally, generally. Yeah, I think so.

Murray Guest  

But I honestly, I haven’t talked about this a lot on the podcast series, just a how many good memories I have, from my time at Master Foods working for Mars Incorporated. They’re regularly on the list or at the top of the list of great places to work and the culture they have. I just want to check in what’s your memory of your time at Master Foods?

Julie Jones  

Yeah, well, I, I actually started with Mars over in the UK. So when I came over, I think I spent 16 years at Mars in total. And I felt like I kind of grew up at Mars. And it was an amazingly entrepreneurial kind of culture, and very into risk taking, creativity, doing new things, you know, so that some of the stuff that I did in marketing was just cutting edge. I loved doing it. My boss was particularly inspiring, in terms of really moving out there and doing new things. So yeah, it was a great culture to learn about being creative and driving a brand through new and interesting ways. So the advent, obviously, of the internet, of things like Facebook, was really interesting to watch that evolve over time. I feel really old saying this.

Murray Guest  

It’s funny, I remember, because back in back in the day, when I used to manage the Consumer Services team, and it was pre social media. So it was a very different, as you’re saying, from a marketing point of view, and that connection with consumers, it was a different connection than what it is today.

Julie Jones  

Yeah, absolutely. And Mars very, I mean, forward thinking in terms of things like shared working spaces, co working spaces, that was always the way at Mars, they were always open plan. And that is now obviously becoming much the norm. But in our days working there at Mars, that was just the way it was, I think.

Murray Guest  

I’ll say we probably had 150 odd people in one office, didn’t we, an open plan?

Yeah absolutely. And literally no screen dividers, nothing. Clean desk policy. So just very, basically open plan. So lots of collaboration, lots of communication around the office. And, but that, consequently, I think also makes it hard to get stuff done. It’s one of the things we talk about in productivity terms is, you know, open plan is great for collaboration, but not so good for doing the work. So I think we have to have to find ways to balance that kind of environment out.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And I’ve noticed in my clients and some of those that have created new workspaces or new offices that have moved in the last couple of years, they’re trying to find a balance between the very old office setup of people in offices and very separate to the very open plan. And I’ve placed between those two, where it is open, but at the same time, there’s a bit of segregation, there’s more breakout areas and areas for those collaborative conversations as well.

Julie Jones  

And it’s critical, it’s really important to get both of those things as our business, as you know, Murray is called Think Productive. And we teach productivity, with our gorgeous little productivity ninja characters. And, and one of those areas that we talk about is stealth and camouflage, which is where we want to go and get stuff done. So we have to have time when we’re collaborating. And we’re sharing, we’re in meetings, always spending time with others during work. But it’s really critical for us to be productive when we are able to get stuff done on major projects or pieces of work that we have to do. And so being able to step away and create that environment where we can do our best thinking is really critical. And certainly in in co-working spaces. It’s very hard to do that. So I actually think it’s going to be really interesting to see with the potential lockdown how people respond to working from home for two weeks, I’m personally really excited about the idea of being home and getting so much stuff done. So, yeah, it’s gonna be really an interesting environment to see how technology can support us in this space as well. Just as we’re doing now, you know, Skyping, zooming, all of those kind of technologies can really help us to stay connected, and to keep business environments working and working well. But I think people will realize the power of creating space for themselves to actually get good work done.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think that the thing that I think about from a cultural point of view is the culture of trust and empowerment that’s so important in these situations. So if you’ve got team members working from home, and a couple of my clients have already implemented split operations, whether divided their teams into a&b, and taking turns to work from home and the office are week about. And that’s a strategy to reduce the impact on the business if someone does become a carrier of the Coronavirus, or one of the strains, of course, but what I think about from a leadership perspective and a culture perspective, and I love your I’d love to get your perspective is we actually need to trust our people, we need to trust our teams, and empower them and hold them accountable to do what they need to do when they are working from home and working remotely. And I think unfortunately, in some cultures, the this is going to highlight where some of that is missing.

Julie Jones  

Yeah, I agree completely. Murray, I think that there are certain businesses that are already embracing this kind of environment. And you can certainly see if you have a business that has offices in different states, they will be much more trusting of their, their teams, and they will have already sort of worked through how to communicate best between team spaces. I have one client that I work with a lot in the ninja space, who are just they’re amazing at how they’re embracing a lot of the productivity kind of techniques and tools, they have a Melbourne office and a Sydney office. And every Friday, they have what they call their Friday catch up. So a bit of a Yay, kind of environment where they’re they’re sharing the wins of the week, they’re spending time and it’s all done over zoom or Skype or Google Hangouts in a way that creates trust between the teams. And they encourage their teams to work off site work from home, they have other shared working spaces that they can use, but they’re really becoming a lot more open about expectation. So it’s shifting that measure of, you know, you are productive if you’re sitting at your desk from nine to five every day, to a much more results based culture. So these are the things that we achieved in this week. How amazing is that? Doesn’t matter that you weren’t sitting at your desk from nine to five. So I think that’s going to be a big shift that we’ll see.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and again, shifting away from this. I guess this approach that we are robots, you need to be a desk from nine to five, the siren goes at morning at 1030 back to work, you know, clock in clock out. It doesn’t sound inspiring, doesn’t sound engaging, and nobody I know, do people really want to work with it? I don’t think so.

Julie Jones  

No, exactly. And all the research we see is showing that the more trust we have in our employees, the more we give them freedom to achieve results and show them what is expected. And obviously modeling great behavior from from the leadership team down is critical to making sure this works, that the research is showing that that’s where the most productive companies are. They’ve already moved to this model of working. So you know, a lot there are going to be companies out there that think Yeah, working from home remotely for two weeks. That’s no problem. Teams are going to be great. They’re already set up for it. Others will be rushing around, I heard somebody saying the other day, no, they’ve got to go through and work out what sort of computer you have at home, what sort of internet you have at home, is it possible for you to work there. So there’s going to be a lot of catch up, I think there’s going to be quite a few people trying to figure out how to make this work for their organization. But hopefully it will be a big shift that will help everyone to feel that in an environment where we are, you know, technologically, we have so many resources available, how do we best use that to create productivity, produce work.

Murray Guest  

And whilst there is a very serious element to what we’re talking about with the health of people, and the well being and obviously, there’s been cases that people haven’t survived around in the world. So yes, there’s a very serious element. But I think what we are exploring is through what is going on right now there is such a great opportunity for organizations to think about how can we use this as a way to leverage our innovation. Setting expectations, as you said, is so important, and creating a even deeper and stronger culture of trust and empowerment.

Julie Jones  

Yeah, I agree completely. And I think the other thing that as individuals, so I think organizationally, those things are going to be really critical. And I think giving individuals within the organizations, the tools to help them feel that this isn’t a bad thing, this is actually a really great way to maybe hone in on all of the work that I’m currently doing reflect on the projects that I’m working on, reflect on the goals and objectives I have for the year. You know, if it’s if it’s two weeks, and I’m isolated for even a month or even longer, you know, how do I best use my time? How do I start to become much more proactive and responsible for my own workload, my education, my interactions with colleagues? How do we structure around that? And I think there are loads of things that we can do to keep people connected even when they’re not together? Yeah, so yeah, lots of opportunities there.

Murray Guest  

I totally agree. And I think that it’s interesting, the way that some people are responding and others are seeing it as I guess, a bit of a threat. And I think what I love to know, Julie is from a productivity ninja perspective, how do you see the work that you do and Think Productive does, helping people the best it can through this?

Julie Jones  

Yeah, it’s, I see, it’s really funny. For me, I guess, as a productivity ninja and, and using these tools every day, it feels kind of innately that this is just going to help everybody just to smooth the waters a little and move through easily. So in terms of our ninjas, you know, we talk about boss thinking versus work mode, getting people to really understand that they need both kinds of thinking. So boss thinking, it’s the planning, it’s the organization, it’s the prioritization, it’s the setting goals and objectives and measuring against them. Everybody if they can work, if they can work to encourage their employees to be very boss driven. So self starting, proactive, really organized around these things I think we can see that will help people in the home environment be able to really focus in on what do I need to do rather than being told what to do. And then the the counter mode to the boss thinking is the worker mode. And that’s where we actually get the work done. So really making sure that everyone has a clear view of what needs to be done in the week in the day is going to be much easier if people are more start self starting to do that. As I mentioned, I think the stealth and camouflage Ninja, which is often the bit that we struggle with in in modern businesses, my dog has just come out of the bedroom, probably hearing moving around.

Murray Guest  

And a gorgeous dog as well.

Julie Jones  

Yes, I’m just I’m just gonna let him out Murray. Cool. And now dogs barking. And so yeah, so stealth and camouflage. So really being great at going dark and getting stuff done. I think, employees, managers, everyone in business is going to learn how to actually be productive in this quiet environment. So becoming used to their own environment in the home space, I think is going to be interesting. I personally love my home space, I’ve set it up, as in a way that just inspires me. And I love being at home and working from home. I think having the flexibility to be in your own environment where you know it really well is going to be great for a lot of people and others it might take some time to adjust to but I’d really encourage everybody to, to really love their workspace. So surround yourself with the things that inspire you know, I’ve got I’ve got little signs on the wall saying do what you love every day. And I’ve got pictures of my diving around me, I’ve got all of my work stuff on the desk that I love to be around in terms of Ninja, and being really focused on that can really help I think, create a space that gives you some boosting energy for your productivity. And…

Murray Guest  

Can I just add, Julie, I think what’s also really important is the conversations that people need to have at home, when they’re creating that space, just like you would have work around getting that clarity around expectations and how you going to work with each other. You need to do that at home as well. So when you’re setting up that space, and when you need some time to be focused or to be really in boss mode and and thinking about what’s on your plate, or that deep thinking whatever it might be that the people you spend your time with at home, understand those boundaries and setting those up. And sometimes they can be a bit difficult. But I think setting those up is just as important as the physical environment.

Julie Jones  

I agree completely. And certainly if you are sharing a home space and you’re all on lockdown together that is going to be a challenge. So having really clear understanding of who’s doing what on the day, whether there are meetings or appointments, things like this, where we’re doing zoom calls, and where we’re going to need quiet sometimes, you can allocate certain spaces in the house that work for people. And I’m very lucky, I have two teenagers in the house that tend to spend a lot of time in their rooms. So it doesn’t really worry me. I’m working. And but yeah, making sure that others understand the environment that you’re working from home in as well. Like, for me, the dog barking for most of the time, that’s fine, because I’ve got clients on the other end of the phone or on a zoom call that understand I’m working from home. So just being clear on those things can really help everybody just to connect and feel a little bit more relaxed about the environment that they’re in.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think that’s a really good point, too, that you want to feel not just comfortable at home, but also feel really confident in what you’re doing. And if you’re talking to someone on the phone, and the dog barks or you know, the door opens, I’ve been in my office at home, and we’ve had a delivery from a toll from a delivery company have had to answer the door. It’s just, that’s just reality of the situation. It doesn’t make it any less professional. It’s just being really clear and honest about what’s happening at the moment.

Julie Jones  

I agree completely. And I think the number of interruptions we probably have in the office far outweigh what we will have at home. And that’s one of the big things that shifting to home based working really showed me was that my productivity boosts through the roof, I get so much more done at home because I have lots of great focused thinking time. So you know, as ninjas, we teach people to be really weapon savvy, and find the things that work for them things that actually boost productivity. So things like the Pomodoro Technique, 25 minutes sprint, five minute off. And this is a focused period of time where you go, I’m going to do this one thing, and I’m going to do it really well. If you can do that, you can do that more easily at home, when you have big periods with that with no interruptions. In a workspace where you have colleagues around you all the time, that becomes much more difficult, much more challenging. So finding the right tools and techniques and ideas that can help you be productive, and stay on track. I know being home can be distracting in that, when you first get used to it, it’s like all I can just put some washing on while I’m doing stuff or I can just go do something else. Or for some of us, it may be that we get into procrastination mode, and we don’t focus on getting started. So that’s really good, too, is to really focus in on what gets me started in the morning. Is it the morning, or am I better off in the afternoon, working out how we are most productive helps us to then hone that into the work that we need to do from home.

Murray Guest  

So I’ve developed and it may have been from conversations with you, or from Matt at Think Productive before around setting myself small little rewards. So sometimes I might have something that I need to do. And I’m a little bit like I don’t want to do this. But I love my morning coffee. So what all sort of say to myself is get this done, then you can have your coffee. So I set those little rewards. And it seems to get me focused because I have trouble staying focused, to be honest.

Julie Jones  

Yeah, it’s absolutely critical Murray. Rewards are great. Most importantly, I think is, as you said, making it small as well start small, just build on that energy, you just get little things done. And you’ll find that what happens when we get things done, if if somebody is a list writer, and they like to tick things off the list, ticks on lists can become addictive. So it releases an endorphin hit into your brain, which is a feel good hormone. And those things help us to just keep that little journey of productivity building and building and building. So yeah, working on those things is really important. I think, also Murray, what I’d say is that there’s a saying, which is just know thyself, I think we need to know how we best work. So being mindful around productivity is really key. If I’m a morning person, I’m gonna get started early, I like to get up I get up really early, I can work from like six till 10, I’ve got half a day done. And I can get so much done in that day. It’s almost like doing a whole day in the office. So know if your productive time is in the morning, the afternoon, the evening, plan around that, know where you work best. And make sure that you have that all kind of scoped out so that you can make that environment happen for you. It may be that the coffee shop, you know works really well for you. Maybe we won’t want to go and sit and hang out in coffee shops coming up in the next little while. But find other spaces that connect that for you. So is it having your coffee on your desk? Is it making sure that you’ve got things around you that inspire you to be productive? Try techniques, try things that help, check out our website thinkproductive.com.au lots of little ideas on there. And if anybody wants to talk more about productivity, just give me a yell. I’m really happy to chat through just different ideas and techniques on this stuff. Big question, Murray. And it’s been a big shift for me. So we’ve said, you know, I worked at Mars for a long time, I also worked at Sara Lee McCain for a long time. So the corporate marketing space for me was always a bit of a passion, too. I loved working there, but very high pressure, and lots of hours, and really very stressful. So, as you know, Murray, over my last 10 years, I’ve had two incidences where I’ve had a friend called cancer in my life, which has really impacted how I’ve looked at moving forward and what I do with my life. And finding ninja was a really big one. For me, it sounds like I found God, but it’s almost kind of the same thing. And it’s really got me to focus on how I do things and being mindful around taking care of myself at the same time, which I think a lot of us don’t do, we tend to get more focused on productivity from I’ve got to squeeze more stuff in. That’s not what this is about. This is about doing the right things, it’s about being focused on creating momentum in a way that’s sustainable. And in a way that is, is inspiring, and exciting and fun, and doesn’t mean that you burn out. And that is just the biggest issue that people are facing in today’s society. So yeah, for me, it’s been life changing. And it’s why I am passionate about it, why I love to share what we do, because it’s really important to understand our physiological responses to that stress, which can make us very sick. And I think more and more businesses are becoming aware that by having a balanced approach to productivity, work life balance, if you want to call it that, it’s critical to employee satisfaction, health and well being and moving forward, it’s how we’re going to be more productive as an as a world.

Murray Guest  

So Jules, I know. And I hope everyone’s hearing it as well how passionate you are and knowledgeable about productivity. And what we’re talking about today, for those that aren’t aware, and I probably haven’t covered this, my apologies, is from the work of Graham Allcott and his book Productivity Ninja and you obviously are now helping people, individuals, teams, students become more productive through some of the key insights and tools from Productivity Ninja, which is part of Think Productive. You’ve been doing this for a few years, I would just love to know what it’s meant for you to have this understanding about productivity? And how has it impacted your life? And I love the insight that I got back when I read Productivity Ninja around, it’s about attention management, not time management. And I’ve heard you say a number of times time management is dead. And where we invest our, our attention, our energy, and how we do it more consciously is just so important, isn’t it?

Julie Jones  

It is absolutely, and one of the big areas that I I’m kind of personally focusing in on at the moment and developing as part of our suite of tools is to ensure that people start thinking a lot more about dreaming, then doing, so thinking about, we often have a bit of a dream, we might do a vision board personally, at the beginning of the year, we might have an idea of kind of the goals and objectives that we have from work that we need to focus on for the year. But then converting that into action is a really big step. So helping people to understand how to do that, I think is really key. And being able to connect the dots so that we have a holistic approach. So it’s not that, you know, we have a vision board at home. And that’s the that we only look at that now and again and say, Oh, I wish I’ve got those dreams to happen this year, is connecting everything together and saying what does my world look like? What does my life look like, from the perspective of all of the dreams that I want to come true? And how can I integrate that into our daily way of working, so that we achieve our goals that we step forward into a space that’s really positive. And that’s a bit of a personal passion for me at the moment.

Murray Guest  

I also think that link between that vision board those dreams we have as a person and what that means in our day to day work we do. Because I think the whole idea of work life balance just is just ridiculous. There is no work life. It’s all life, and work is part of our life and to even say work life. It’s sort of saying all the good parts of life are part of work, isn’t it?

Julie Jones  

That’s exactly right. And I think that you absolutely can do both at the same time.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Jules what’s been the impact you’ve seen on teams that you’ve worked with, helping them understand these characteristics of being a Productivity Ninja, how’s it helped them, what it meant for them?

Julie Jones  

And I guess this is where it gets really exciting when you see people talking the language of productivity ninja talking about things like stealth and camouflage or being human, not superhero, or being an agile ninja. It’s really exciting to see teams embracing these ideas and concepts because they start to have fun at work. They start to be a little bit unorthodox, they start to have fun as a team which boosts productivity. This is scientifically proven, you know, some of these concepts and aspects really help people to to survive, not just to survive, but to actually thrive at work and that’s a really important one for me. So I find that really exciting. We have actually some clients last year down, would you believe they had a team day at thredbo down at the snow. And we did a whole day of ninja workshops down at thredbo. And that was an awesome way for them to connect as a team. And these guys are the guys that work remotely in Sydney and Melbourne. And they all came together, they had a great ninja day. And afterwards when I caught up with them six months later, they were still talking about ninja and they were still talking about the the concepts, the language around it, and they’d had actually had one guy that’s kind of their ninja champion within the business. And he’s helping and encouraging other team members with things like technology that they’re challenged with or concepts of how to be more productive. So it you see this flow through in teams and it becomes an a language that’s easy in art. It’s articulated through everything that they do. And it’s yeah, it’s really I find it very exciting to see teams get, I guess, a better work life balance, if we want to call it that again, or just life you know, they’re doing life now with an energy and a fun aspect to it. That is really inspiring.

Murray Guest  

I’ve just got to share. You’ve inspired me, I think I need to run my next workshop in Thredbo. Mountain Biking with my clients. Absolutely. Just putting it out there anyone listening if you want to do that? I heard you got some skiing while you’re down there too. I hope.

Julie Jones  

I did. I did. Yes, absolutely.

Murray Guest  

You’re pretty good on the skis from memory.

Julie Jones  

Oh, I’m okay. I’m an intermediate, I think.

Murray Guest  

So, from a productivity point of view, we’ve talked about a few of the different characteristics of being a Productivity Ninja, which one haven’t we covered at this point?

Julie Jones  

Well, the one I think I will talk I would love to just mention again is unorthodoxy ninja. And this is I think in the current climate one that we all need to embrace a little bit more. And unorthodoxy ninja is about doing things differently. It’s experimenting, and it’s actually telling, challenging ourselves to go with the flow a little bit, and not be scared by trying new things. So I think all of us are going to need to be a bit unorthodox about embracing the current global situation and try things like working from home, even if you’re not on lockdown, give it a go see what happens. Try setting up, instead of a meeting, I’m supposed to be flying to Melbourne tomorrow for meetings for two days, which I don’t think is going to happen, to be honest, given the current climate. But how could we do that differently? How do we set up Skype calls that are interactive? Can we send materials ahead of time so that we can still all be working on certain things together? How do we create environments for our clients, for our customers, that allow them to still be immersed in our brands or our conversations or our businesses in a way that’s engaging, so really thinking outside the square? To do that, I think it’s going to be really interesting. So I’d encourage everybody to be a little bit more unorthodox, build with a mad scientist and just try some new things. Even if it’s for a day or a week, try something different, and have some fun doing it. This will help us to really boost our productivity and find new ways to remain productive in an environment that’s a little bit challenging.

Murray Guest  

I love that. And can I just add one I’ve been thinking about as well. I’m sure it’s the same in many cities around the world. I’ve seen it in Sydney whenever I’m in there and just how jam packed the transport is, the train system is, when everyone’s going to work in the morning and the afternoon. What does it look like to actually start work earlier? Or start work later? And how can you set that up so that you were spreading out the contact with other people but also that we are making it easier on the system as well. So I wonder what that could look like in someone’s workplace. 

Julie Jones  

Yeah brilliant idea, Murray. Inventing a little bit of a like a mini shift system could be could work really well.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. I think so. And of course, operationally, these things need to happen. But right now with what’s happening with this pandemic, I think the number one has to be people’s health and well being and I love what we’ve been talking about, Jules, around how the the traits, the insights, the tools of Productivity Ninja and can be applied right now to help people deal with what’s going on in a real productive way.

Julie Jones  

Yeah, absolutely. I think you know, the world doesn’t stop. We all have to work. We all have to be involved in some of the stuff that we probably don’t want to be involved in with the the Coronavirus, but it’s really great to have tools that can help us to just be a little bit different with it not not just sit back and kind of go, Okay, well, I’m stuck at home for two weeks, but take a more proactive and positive ability to influence our environment.

Murray Guest  

Oh, so and I know that you are sharing out with your clients in the coming days. From Think Productive, you’re sending out some information around some of what we’re talking about. So I would love to share that with my people as well. So I’ll make sure I get that. And of course, we’ll have links in the show notes to Think Productive, and to you as well. I want to ask you a question. I just want to go back to your point around a vision board and someone’s personal goals. And this question popped into my head, I didn’t want to miss the chance to ask you. I guess I’m thinking about what’s on your vision board, what’s on your goals of maybe where you want to dive or maybe some other things you want to experience?

Julie Jones  

Yeah, my vision board is full of a lot of blue, blue underwater shots of things like diving with whale sharks, which is still on my list this year. And it’s also though it’s quite a an interesting mix of things on my board this year. We are due to actually go to a balloon, hot air balloon festival in April. I’m hoping that will still go ahead, but who knows. And so yeah, being up in the sky in a hot air balloon is also a bit of a goal and passion of mine, and lots of other elements on my border around keeping focus on my health and well being. So keeping balance, and really focusing on not getting sucked into, I guess, working all costs, and not having some fun along the way. So really balancing that out. One thing I wanted to mention Murray too, was was something that’s just recently hit me in setting goals. I’m pretty focused on being quite goal oriented. I like to be action oriented too and get things done.

Julie Jones  

I’ve just recently been exploring more with smart goals. So as we start to set objectives and goals for work or for home, and personal life, what struck me with smart goals? So you would remember Murray, SMART goals being a specific goal where we set some target for ourselves, measurable, attainable, is it relatable? And is it timely? I think we often in business set goals like this, to make sure it’s very measurable. However, what I’m finding is they’re not very inspiring. So for me, I’ve actually made my goals smartie goals. So I’ve added an i and e at the end, so is it inspiring? Is it exciting? Does it really energize me and get me moving. And I think if we can ensure that we set goals that really do that, for us across every aspect of our lives, we’ve got a better chance of actually delivering them. I know that for myself, smart goals, to me are pretty boring, it’s all about measurement, it’s all about being very focused in on getting stuff done in a certain timeframe. But smartie goals to me really energize me. So that’s just something I’d love to challenge people on thinking about.

Murray Guest  

I love that. And I’m just picturing the smarties there and how I feel when I eat Smarties and but I’ve heard of smarter goals, which has the E and R. But I like the smartie a lot. And it does link to inspired energy with that being inspired, and you’ve got some energy, and yet it’s energizing, and you want to take action on it. So I actually like it being at the end of the smart process too. Because let’s say if you’re looking at setting yourself a goal, or as a leader, you’re setting your team or people on your team a goal. You can, at the end, do that final check and say so after we’ve been through this, is it really inspiring. And are you motivated to go and do it?

Julie Jones  

Exactly right. Yeah. And I can tell you right now, some of my work goals in the past have not been very inspiring or energizing. So yeah, I think having that lens on, it really helps people to get connected to achieving results and being more productive in that way.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, love it. Thank you. Now just to double check, though, is there anything else that you would love to add in your definition of inspired energy? Oh, and you can’t say scuba diving.

Julie Jones  

I did, I did sort of my head did go there. But I think what it, what we have to look at is what is our long term vision, our long term goal. So for me, as you know, Murray, my goal is I’m going to work three days and dive for four, so my week does revolve a lot around diving and being underwater and spending time in the space that I love. But I also am so passionate about productivity. And I see that my workshops, the work that I do with with corporates and individuals around productivity is still so much part of who I am and what I want to be able to help with in the world. So that’s how I guess, is my sense of purpose. And so being able to always ladder back to that bigger objective, I think is really important. So we need our energy to be inspired. We need our energy, energy to be focused on that laddering right up to that very holistic, top level goal. That really inspires us. And so yeah, making sure we do that I think will help us to all be much more productive on a daily basis.

Murray Guest  

Wonderful. I’ve absolutely loved to talking to you today, Julie about scuba diving, about ways that we can take action right now with what is going on in the world, about your insights around productivity and what it’s meant for you and the people you work with. It’s been such an inspiring chat. And I’m so glad we’re able to do it right now. So to help people with what is going on in the world. And besides right now, there’s so much that we just covered I think that helps people no matter where we are and what time of the year. But obviously, it’s a bit of a an interesting time in this moment. So thank you very much.

Julie Jones  

You’re very welcome, Murray, thank you for having me. And I just want to extend that offer. If anybody needs to chat about working remotely, please Murray feel free to put my phone number and email address and everything on the contacts. Because yeah, it can be a bit scary and daunting if you haven’t done it before. So really happy to chat.

Murray Guest  

Yes, that is such a beautiful thing to offer Julie. Thank you. I will make sure in our notes, you’ll find links to Julie-Anne Jones on LinkedIn, Think Productive and Julie’s email and also the Facebook page for Think Productive Australia. If anyone has got anything out of this, and I’m sure you have there’s been so much we’ve covered, please share it on social media on Instagram or LinkedIn or Twitter and make sure you include Julie and myself and link us as well. Again, Jules so great to chat. Look forward to seeing you again soon. And I love your passion for what you do. And maybe one day just maybe one day I’ll get in the water with you.

Julie Jones  

That would be awesome. Thanks very much for having me Murray.

Murray Guest  

Thank you. Have a great week. Bye everyone.