Episode 49 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Mel Kettle

In this episode I chat with Mel Kettle, where she shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Hi, Mel, welcome to the heading into the roaring 20s podcast. Great to have you. How are you? 

Mel Kettle  

I’m great. Thank you so much for inviting me to be a guest. It’s such a pleasure to be a guest and not the host for once. 

Murray Guest  

Yes, I know exactly how you feel. And I love the chance to get to meet people doing amazing work like yourself and you are a strategic communication expert. Can you tell us a bit more about what that entails. 

Mel Kettle  

So I work with senior leaders and teams, and sometimes with emerging leaders and aspiring leaders, to help them understand how to communicate more effectively. And in my mind, effective communication needs to have clarity, compassion, and conviction. And if you’re missing one of those three things, you’re going to really struggle to get your message out and understood. 

Murray Guest  

So I talk to a lot of the leaders I work with about clarity and how that’s missing in so many areas of the way that they’re leading. So I can get clarity. And I understand that how important that is. Because there seems to be a murkiness quite often in not just communication, but in expectations, I can see in people. The other one, so you talk about conviction. Tell me a bit more about that one.

Mel Kettle  

So you need to believe your message. And if you don’t believe it, then how can you expect other people to believe it and come along with you on whatever the journey is that you’re wanting to take them on.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, okay, and compassion. What about that?

Mel Kettle  

We need love in business. And we need love and kindness and gratitude and compassion encompasses all of those things. And if you’re not, you know, if you don’t show empathy, if you don’t have an understanding of what people are going through. And if you’re not just, you know, a good person, then again, why would people follow you and listen to you and do what you want them to do?

Murray Guest  

I’m even thinking at the simplest. Are you putting yourself in the other person’s shoes when you communicate?

Mel Kettle  

Absolutely. That’s essential. Empathy in business and empathy and communication is so critical. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

And how long have you been doing this work for?

Mel Kettle  

So I started my practice back in 2006. And before that, I worked for the Queensland Government, I worked as the Marketing Manager for the Brisbane Festival, the performing arts festival. And before that, I worked as a conference organizer, organizing, mostly medical and legal conferences, but also a stint running all the events for Microsoft in Australia. And we did 300 events in that year. And if I never have to organize another event, I’ll be happy.

Murray Guest  

That is a lot. Wow. So part of these, these sessions are reflecting on the past decade. But before we jump into the past decade, because we’re going back a little further there, organizing all those events, you must have had some insights into people, into organization, into planning. When you think about all those events that you did organize, can you share any lessons with us?

Mel Kettle  

I think the biggest thing that taught me was to be organized and to manage my time, particularly well, actually, both jobs, I did that kind of work for about four years. And there were always multiple events on the go. There were always a whole range of different personalities and different clients. And you had to be good at, I guess, a little bit of ESP, predicting what was needed before people realized that they needed it so that you could solve their problems for them. But also listening, listening was critical and observing and asking questions, so that you could have the right event at the right time with the right bums on seats. And that was in the 90s. So it was really when the internet was just starting. I remember, I first started organizing conferences in 1996. And in 1997, we got the internet in our office. And that was a bit of a game changer. And then towards the end of it might have been mid 1997, we went to an online registration system. And I still remember the expression of complete joy on our conference managers face when 50 registrations downloaded or almost automatically, and took the same length of time as it normally would take her to manually input one registration. Yeah, well, yeah, that was just phenomenal.

Murray Guest  

And I mean, of course, things like other online systems, and social media and all those things that have happened since you do it back when you used to do it. I’m sure it was a lot tougher.

Mel Kettle  

It was just different. And it was what you knew at the time. So I remember when, you know, when I was organizing conferences, we would have to print brochures to promote the event that we would then have to post out to our mailing list. I remember thinking, this is just you know, this is a bit of work, but it’s what you have to do because it’s the only option. But older event managers would say to me, I remember when we didn’t have photocopiers, and so we had to type things in triplicate, and I was there going, Oh my God. So, carbon paper, so you’ve got your copies, and on typewriters and not word processors and computers. So then, but now when I talk to event managers and say, well, we didn’t have the internet for the first bit of time I was doing it. And we definitely didn’t have any social media. And they look at me and they say, How did you promote your events? And then when I say, we didn’t really even have mobile phones, they’re like, how did you communicate with each other, and it blows people’s minds. But that was only 25 years ago, like, it’s not a long time ago, when you look at history. And so the way that we communicate, the way we communicate from, from a physical withdrawal perspective has changed quite a bit, but the essence, you still need clarity, you still need conviction, you still need compassion, to ask, listen and observe. None of those things have changed. No, no, no. If anything, that’s even more important now. Because we’re bombarded with so many more messages.

Murray Guest  

And leads us beautifully to the past decade, you know, 2009, through 2019, you’ve been running your business, you’ve been helping people getting their message out with conviction, with compassion, with clarity. What are some of the lessons that you think you’ve learned over that period of time?

Mel Kettle  

I’ve been thinking about this 2000, this decade, I guess, 2010 started out for me, turning 40. So that was a bit of a ohhh what’s happening now. But then shortly after that, my mum died. And then shortly after that, my dad died. And it was both really unexpected. And what struck me and still just amazes me every day is how kind and incredible people can be when you’re going through a difficult time. And, you know, it was the kindness of obviously, my friends and my family who really helped my immediate family through that awful time. But it was also the kindness of strangers. And people and the kindness of my clients like I didn’t work for about after my mother died, I just didn’t work for six months, I had a complete and utter, I just was so embedded in grief, I couldn’t do anything. And my clients were just so amazing, because I emailed them all and said, This is what’s just happened. And because it was unexpected, I was in the middle of a whole bunch of different projects. And I said, I’m not available for at least three weeks, and maybe not even longer. And they so many of them came back and said, when you’re ready, we’re here. You know, let us know if we what we can do to help you. And it was incredible. And those kindnesses. It really made me it really made me realize how business can be when you’ve got people when you’ve got love. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Murray Guest  

You mentioned love before. And you talked that, you know, love can show up in so many different ways. And to have clients like that. Where showing that true care for somebody else. Yeah. And that flexibility, I’m sure they showed you at that time as well.

Mel Kettle  

Enormous flexibility. And then when I came back to them and said, Look, I’m not actually going to be working until the end, until the new year, because I just need time to process this. And I had a holiday planned and I had other things going on, and just their willingness to accept that. And then to be there, when I did come back, like I didn’t lose a single client over that period of time. And that was amazing to me.

Murray Guest  

Well, I think that that’s beautiful, around that kindness from them. But I also think it’s a reflection of you and the type of person you are in the way you work with your businesses. So I can get into that already, just from our conversation. So I mean, my father passed away a few years ago, and I feel how you’re you would have been then because it’s not that long ago for myself. And I know what that was like.

Mel Kettle  

But I think the other thing is, I was really honest, and I’d always been very honest with all of my clients and with everybody I’d do business with. And I’ve always been, some people would say an oversharer. But I just think the more you know about me, then the better our relationship is going to be. And the more likely we’re going to work out quickly whether we’re the right people to work together or not. And I’ve got some clients, I’ve got a client who said to me a little while ago, I’m having a lot of issues with one of my staff members. There’s something going on in her world, and I don’t know what it is, and she’s not trusting me with what’s happening. And I said, Okay, well, I’m having coffee with her. Let me see what I can elicit and encourage her to have conversation with you. Later that night, I went out for dinner with this with the same woman and she said to me, she was just telling me all about this personal crisis, I guess that she was going through, in her personal world and I said, do any of your staff know about this? And she said, Well, no. And I said, Well, how do you expect them to be open and honest with you when you’re not sharing what’s happening in your world which is rocking your world in a really bad way, with them. And I said you haven’t got to tell them the nuts and bolts and all the gory details, but you should at least say to them, these are the key highlights of what’s happening in my world right now or the lowlights. And this is why I’m a little bit distracted. Because the more you know each other, the more you’ll work more effectively together. Because people do business with people they know love and trust.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think it links beautifully to your key messages and compassion and understanding each other. And we can’t lose sight of the fact that we people, and that, you know, we connect with people, and we understand it and build that those relationships. So I mean, certainly great feedback to her saying, how can you expect someone open up to you, if you’re not opening up to them?

Mel Kettle  

That’s exactly, then you don’t need to. And you know, I do a lot of work with people to help them expand their digital footprint, and to be more active on LinkedIn in particular. And I say to my clients, you need to be sharing personal stories, and you need to be sharing parts of your personality. And it always surprises me when people come back to me and say, but I keep my personal world and my work world completely separate. Yeah. And I just think, how do you do that? Like, how do you show up at work and be a genuine, true person that shows your genuine personality when you keep them separate?

Murray Guest  

Well, they’re not, are they.

Mel Kettle  

And so, you know, I then say, you don’t have to, you know, share the intimate details of your personal life, but you should at least be sharing snippets, so that people can get a sense of who you are, what you stand for, what your values are. Because if you don’t demonstrate your values in particular, and not just talking about them, but how do you live them, then younger generation aren’t going to want to work for you, younger generation aren’t going to want to buy from you, they won’t want to volunteer with you or invest with you. Because they don’t, they won’t sense this connection. And it’s interlocking values, which is what they’re looking for.

Murray Guest  

So if a leader or if anybody is really resisting that opening up, to be themselves and to share a bit about themselves to you know, build those relationships, but they’re really resisting that what do you think is a really good way to help them start to move that forward? And to shift that?

Mel Kettle  

I help them, I try to engage them in a conversation about even what they’ve done on the weekend. Did they spend time with family? Did they spend time with friends? Do they go see a movie? Did they play sport? Did they watch sport? Did they just relax and do nothing? And how can they find little stories in there every day that talk about things that are of value and of interest to other people. And it might be you know, with some of my clients who are really resistant, I say just what is one hobby or one thing that you do that you’re happy to talk about publicly that’s not work related. And it might be they love to bake, it might be that they’re really into football, it might be that they I don’t know, something that’s personal, but doesn’t talk about, their their partners, their kids, their grandkids, that sort of thing. Sometimes it’s they might talk about their pets, but you have to find something that you can share. That’s not solely work related for people to get a better sense of who you are as an entire person. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

I think that sort of stepping into that a little bit, because I think that’s the fear, isn’t it? People think, Oh, I have to open up the whole sort of, my whole life. And it’s actually just about let’s just provide a little bit, a little bit that I went and saw the new spiderman film or something, whatever it might be. 

Mel Kettle  

Yeah. You don’t have to say, I had a really shit weekend because I had a fight with my wife. And I think we’re getting a divorce. And my stepson hates me and bla bla bla bla. But you could say, it wasn’t my best weekend. And I’m really looking forward to, you know, but a highlight of my weekend was, I don’t know, I might have read five chapters of a book that I really want to read, or I went for a walk on the beach, or, you know, there’s always something that isn’t going to open your soul up too much if you don’t want to.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. I think that is such a powerful thing. And you sort of hinted that there also about social media, and I think the the way of communicating online, but even the thing that stands out to me is when I catch public transport, and I’m on the train, and everyone sits on their devices, and they’re just they’re looking at it and there’s not that connection. So I think, do you do you think and I’m thinking this that people losing that ability to have that connection to have those conversations? Because there’s so much?

Mel Kettle  

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, there’s research that has come out of the UK recently that says one in eight people is addicted to their smartphone. And not only are we addicted to our smartphones, we look at them, we pick them up about 58 to 60 times a day. Most of us spend between four and five hours staring at the screen on our phone not and that’s not looking at computer screens or other screen devices that’s just on our phone. But when when it comes to things like Netflix, Reed Hastings, who’s the CEO of Netflix came out two years ago, at an investor meeting and said, our biggest competitor is sleep. People need to sleep. And that’s why they turn off Netflix.

Murray Guest  

Well, yes, you do need to sleep. Yeah, wow.

Mel Kettle  

So that, that I do, I do think, you know, we’re so connected in terms of a technological perspective. But in terms of an interpersonal relationship perspective, we are so disconnected today. And I think that’s a massive problem for our society, particularly Western society, where technology and phones and Netflix and binge watching. And you know, we read books on Kindles, and it’s so easy now to spend time staring at a screen that we forget the art of opening our mouths and talking and having conversations and picking up the phone to make a phone call to have a conversation as opposed to a text or a Facebook message or a WhatsApp message.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I’ve started recently, I’d say in the last year, a few of my clients do this, they leave the recorded message. And it’s that recorded message, as opposed to texting. And the feeling I’m getting is, it’s actually quite a nice way because I’m actually getting some of the emotion in the message. And it’s actually easier and quicker to do as well, what are your thoughts on that way of communicating?

Mel Kettle  

Look, I think it depends on the individual. Personally, I find it far quicker to read a quick text message than it is to listen to an audio recording or watch a video of somebody. So my voicemail actually says, I’m really bad at listening to messages, send me a text, give me a bit of information about what it’s about. And then I can either, and then I’ll call you back when I’ve got some time to have a conversation that isn’t just, you know, me on the fly. But also I can respond to a text really quickly and say thanks for your message, I’m in a meeting, or I’m traveling all day, or I’m not available until this time, can I call you then?

Murray Guest  

I think you’re hinting at something here, which I don’t think enough people do. And that’s actually understanding how someone wants to be communicated with, what are their, what’s their preference, because some prefer tech, some prefer, you know, on the fly, some prefer voicemail, or whatever it is, but actually start to have the conversation about how you want to have the conversation.

Mel Kettle  

Exactly. And one of the first questions I ask all of my clients is how do you like to be communicated with? Is it okay? Like, do you like email? Do you like phone calls? Are you happy if I text you? Because if I’ve just got a quick question, or if I’m sending you something that needs a quick response, I don’t want to rely on you looking at your emails at six o’clock at night, if I’m sending at nine o’clock in the morning. Can I send you a quick text to say, if you have a chance today? And this is what I’ve just done? And or do you hate text messages? Or you know, do you prefer to be communicated with through LinkedIn messaging? Or, you know, what is it so that I can adapt my communication style to suit your needs? Because you’re the client. And by the way, don’t leave me a voicemail because I’m never going to listen to it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I guess make make it very clear. Again, bring that clarity. Now, I want to jump ahead on thinking about the next decade. We’ve talked a bit about the past, you know, as we’re about to hit the next decade in a not that far off. Roaring 20s are coming. So now what do you reckon is and what are some of your hopes do you think for this next decade?

Mel Kettle  

Hopes to me personally? Or?

Murray Guest  

Anything you’re happy to share?

Mel Kettle  

I’ve just been sitting down over the last week, I guess, to think about what I want for the next 12 months and a little bit more broadly about the next decade. Oh my god I’ll be in my 50s in the next decade. That’s a bit scary.

Murray Guest  

That’s okay, I think I’m gonna get there before you, by the way. 

Mel Kettle  

When are you?

Murray Guest  

In two years. Two years.

Mel Kettle  

You’re 50 in two years? Oh my god, I’m 50 in about six weeks. So scary, scary. I think for me, I really believe in doing what you love. And the last a lot of the last 10 years I like I love my job. I love the people I work with. I’m really particular about who I work with, because I want to make sure that I do love them. And that they love me as well. And so I think more of that. More of my next book is coming out in the new year. Hopefully I’ll write two or three or four more, five more or six more after that. Lots more speaking. Lot’s more, just I’m curious to see what the changes with communication and technology are going to bring. Because even though I think we I love technology, don’t get me wrong. I think we need to be more conscious about making decisions as to how we use it and when we use it so that you don’t just sit on the couch and think I’ll just have a quick look at Instagram. And an hour later, you’ll look up and go, what happened, where did that time go? How do we be more deliberate with how we use the technology? And how do we be more conscious of the relationships with people who we want to have stronger relationships with? I think for organizations, yes, AI and technology are replacing some people and some jobs. But I think that people to people, that human to human contact is always going to be critical. You just look at the response of people who call up a phone number, and there’s a robo person, yes, push this number for this, push this button for this, push this for this, people are pushing back and resistant to technology taking over people’s jobs in some of those ways, because you want to talk to a person, because it’s often a quicker and, and kinder. And then finally, I think kindness is going to play a far bigger role in the future. And I think we need to be more kind and more conscious of people who are struggling, because social isolation is increasing, loneliness is increasing. And not just with older people. But again, there’s research out of the UK that shows the fastest growing demographic of people that’s lonely are people in their 20s. And I’m fairly confident, a lot of that’s because we have relationships through our phones and, and our tablets and our computers and not in that face to face way. And when when you’ve got loneliness and social isolation, that’s leads to stress and anxiety and depression. And the number one cause of long term absence from work due to illness is depression, and anxiety. So what is it we can do as employers and as leaders in the workforce to make sure that our people feel cherished and valued and included in the work that we do, and in the organization and inclusiveness is essential? Yeah. And I think that that proactive sort of approach by leaders within organizations to show that kindness show people that they valued, that they appreciated that they needed, before it gets to the point that they’re, you know, needing to take a break, or that depression is happening, or that there’s mental, but being proactive and saying that upfront. And and, you know, being kind and being compassionate, doesn’t need to take time, and it doesn’t need to cost money. It can be as simple as saying, Good morning, how are you and actually listening, and having, you know. I was in a client’s office a few weeks ago, and I walked through the office, and one of her staff had a desk that was covered in Star Wars figurines, there must have been 60 of them in his cubicle. And it was pretty obvious by looking at that, even for someone who’s never seen a Star Wars movie, what he was into. And so it would be very simple to have a year’s worth of conversations with him, because you could just ask the question about a different figure. And every time you walk past or every morning or every evening, somebody else in that office had photos of that they had the half a dozen photo frames on their desks, and every photo frame had a picture of a different cat. So again, really obvious what that person is interested in, really easy to ask questions that are of relevance to that person, because you’ve just got to say, what are your cat’s names?

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And as a Strengths coach, so I do a lot of work with organizations and with leaders around strengths. And a key part of that is make is actually identifying what’s right about people rather than pointing out what’s wrong. The easy thing for some people to do is to point out, someone’s got pictures of cats, isn’t that silly. Or someone’s got figurines doesn’t that make them wrong, as opposed to I actually want to understand that about you, and connect with you. And then that person will feel much more connected as human to human and valued.

Mel Kettle  

Then when all else fails, you know, comment on somebody’s dress, or their shoes or their tie and pay them a small compliment. Because the lift that that gives people is ridiculous. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Now, Mel I’m gonna give you an opportunity, and I’m mindful of our time, we need to wrap up, but I’m going to give you an opportunity, I’m going to hire a sky writer who’s going to use some old technology, because we are talking about the 20s. And with that Sky writer they’re gonna put a message across the earth and everyone’s going to see that message. They can’t avoid it, they can’t miss it. This is your message out to everyone around the world. What is your message you would love to give to everybody to set them for success and just to set them in, in a path going forward?

Mel Kettle  

It’s really simple. Just be kind.

Murray Guest  

I feel that and you know what, at this time of year as we reflect on the year and some of the things in the media at the moment and some of the the separation and the you know, the the non inclusiveness that is going on I think if we can be more kind to everybody in all areas of our life, it would have such a ripple effect. 

Mel Kettle  

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Murray Guest  

Thank you. I love that it’s simple and so powerful. 

Mel Kettle  

Thank you. 

Murray Guest  

Where’s the best one place for people to find you online.

Mel Kettle  

So my website is Melkettle.com. And that’s got links to everything else. But from a social media perspective, LinkedIn and Twitter are my two favorite places. So if you just Google Mel Kettle I’ll be on the first half a dozen pages with my name, very convenient.

Murray Guest  

Good work from you, well done Mel. I love chatting to you, I love you know what you’re passionate about. And it’s something that I’m passionate about. And I’m learning from you about those, the key areas of communication and to make them more effective and to really connect with people to bring that love into work and that kindness. I’m looking forward to talking to you more. And I’m wishing you so much success in this next decade as well. So thank you so much for your time.

Mel Kettle  

Thank you so much for having me as a guest. It’s been great to chat to you and find out more about you as well. 

Murray Guest  

Great. Thanks, Mel. 

Mel Kettle  

Thanks, Murray. Bye.