Episode 59 – Greg Gates | Sirron Holdings – Innovation through a crisis

In this episode, I chat with Greg Gates, Managing Director of Sirron Holdings Group.  We explore pivoting your business when faced with hardship.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  00:01

Greg mate look forward to chatting today on the podcast. It’s awesome to be connecting with you. How you been through all of this stuff that’s going on on the world right now?

Greg Gates  00:02

Well, hi, Murray, thanks for having me on really pleased to take a few moments out of, you know, what we’re doing to talk about it. Really, it’s been a bit of a whirlwind, and long days and lots of running.

Murray Guest  00:06

And things are just changing so rapidly, so quickly, from where we were at the start of the year, and your business that does primarily focus on that manufacturing, distribution of catering. You guys been pivoting pretty hard, haven’t you? 

Greg Gates  00:22

Look, we have. And, you know, three Sunday nights ago, I was, I couldn’t sleep and 90% of our business comes from the sale of assets or capital items to hospitality. If I was looking at what was happening around the world, they were just shutting places that I go, we were about to stop. We make commercial dishwashers, in Australia, in Caves Beach, which is kind of ridiculous category to make in Australia, but we do it. And we make machines that last for like 20 years, and nowhere in what we might do we make it cheap, we make it to last. And it’s probably the thing that holds us in there. And as I saw this I’ll say, tsunami of stop coming at us. I thought to myself, well, we worked on a hand sanitizer formula in another business that we’ve got. And we kind of shelved it for a bit. And I thought, we’re gonna bring that to market, and we’ve only got a few days to do it. So essentially, we turned our dishwasher manufacturing plant into a hand sanitizer plant. And look, it comes with some some chemical knowledge, we have a chemical plant that makes cleaning products for hospitality, including dishwashing detergents for our machines. And so it’s not as though we, we didn’t have a history in the category. But we did pivot and we’ve virtually stopped, I think we sold a machine yesterday. I don’t know who to, haven’t they heard? The place is shut. But we are, we are busy making hand sanitizer.

Murray Guest  02:37

So just very quickly. I want to talk about the hand sanitizer and we’ll talk about that pivot in manufacturing, but the pub down the road for me, I noticed actually doing some renovations at the moment. And I guess I was wondering when I walked past that to get my morning coffee, because I’m still trying to support the local business. I was thinking are some of those places at the moment using this as an opportunity if they’ve got the cash flow. And they’ve got the the ability to actually do some renovations. Do you think that is going to happen at the moment as well?

Greg Gates  03:09

Yeah, we’re seeing some of that. So it’s a good observation. Seasoned people with a good bank, time to spend some money, will pop out of this. And, you know, we see evidence of some large jobs coming through that we’re quoting on. But these kinds of jobs have timelines on them that, you know, are months, and our cash flow and actually the cash flow of our customers because we’ve got to sell to distributors. It’s now. Yeah. And so there’ll be some of that work available. The other thing is, everybody will be scrambling for that work. And so, you know, it’s probably a good time to do a renovation, if you if you’re thinking about it. From a viability standpoint. We’ve got a range of people whose revenue stopped in this category. Immediately. Yeah, zero. And they’ve got some large wage bills to, to support. So you know, and that story is actually replicated right across the world, right?

Murray Guest  04:13

Yeah, no, you’re right. So just tell me again, when we pivot from in a manufacturing facility from making commercial dishwashing machines to hand sanitizer, what’s the timeframe? How quickly did that happen?

Greg Gates  04:28

So Monday morning, I got the team in, I said righto. This is what we’re doing. And by one week, in one week, we’re going to lock away the formula, which we kind of had, we done some testing on, but we’ll lock that away, lock away the raw ingredients. And then we’ll look at our manufacturing capacity. And by Wednesday, we had all those things locked away and we’d started taking orders. And we hadn’t made anything commercially, you know, we’d made samples and whatever, but we hadn’t made any commercial runs. So on on the following Monday, we did some factory trials. And by Tuesday, we’ve been running 20 hours a day, and making sanitizer, and typically, this is how it is, I get on the phone. And I say to some of our customers, do you need some hand sanitizer, and like, a bottle would be handy. And I go, take more than one, we’re doing it now. And they go, Oh, okay. Send me two. Two hours later, they go. Well, could could you give me 20? Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, a couple of hours later, guys dropping a pallet. Now it’s five pallets at a time. And what I’ve loved and I get a bit emotional about this, but with this idea is actually saved a lot of our customers, I had one of their customers kind of laugh at me a bit. When I first said it. He said, You’re making what? And I said, we’re making hand sanitizer. And he said, Well give us some and he phoned me last Friday and said, You know what, this paid our wages this week. And if we didn’t have it, we would be stuck. Right. And so it’s really been interesting, the impact of the pivot. To answer your question, we did it in a week. And it was a really rough move, like we moved too quick. Yeah. We wanted to keep our product formulations tight. And every week, we’re getting a bit more organized, and we’re doing more and more production, because we are making a move. The other thing that was in place, is there’s lots of people that can physically make hand sanitizer, but they don’t have all the ingredients, or all the packaging. Yeah. And so even though we turned it around in a week, we had to secure some packaging. So I bought 500 pallets of plastic bottles, which is apparently a lot. Well, it’s a lot for us.

Murray Guest  07:11

It’s a fair order.

Greg Gates  07:13

And the supplier went, how many? And then we secured the raw material that we needed to make the product and I made sure we bought lots of it. So you know, those three things were important: one move on the idea, two secure the packaging, and then three, secure the raw materials and that the rest is about you know, taking the orders and getting them out the door.

Murray Guest  07:42

Yeah, I think we can’t underplay the impact of this pivot, like you said, and you said, you get a bit emotional, I’ll be honest, I got the tingles on the arms when you talk about that, because we are talking about people’s livelihoods here. And when you pivot as a business like that, there’s the impact through the whole distribution chain, from suppliers, through your customers and their customers. And that that pivot is now enabling people to support their employees keep people in jobs, and then there’s a ripple effect for the whole community, mate, so I just I want to really acknowledge that and because I think it’s fantastic. You’ve been able to do that.

Greg Gates  08:25

Thank you and look, I’d have to say I’ve got a supportive board. I was spending money I didn’t have approval to spend. And when I explained what I what I’d done, they’re like, fair enough. But yes, sometimes you don’t have time to make them, you know, to run with the the approvals in the process, but we did it. And I appreciate your your feedback. It is interesting that one guy that is a dear friend down in Adelaide, he kind of laughed it off. What are you doing? The other week, he said, Oh, I’m happy to walk out the front with a sandwich board on that says we’ve got hand sanitizer because this, you know, this is our lifeline and, and I thought Boy, that was a change in in in attitude. It’s been pleasing for me to receive phone calls from people looking for work. And then I can say, yeah come in at one o’clock, we need you for 10 hours. And that that’s a really, really positive thing. Our street is full of cars. It’s just fantastic.

Murray Guest  09:26

Yeah, that is great, mate. I, I know that you care about culture, like the work that I do when I work with organizations at building culture and leadership. Tell me about the culture that you need to have within an organization to be able to pivot like this successfully.

Greg Gates  09:42

So at the base level, when we employ anyone I say to them, all I need you to do is three things really. Simply turn up on time, and if you’re not on time, you can’t stay. Have a good attitude, and do what we ask you to do. And and simply there’s plenty of people late, cranky, and do half the job, I don’t want them, they’re not helpful. So I’ve, I’ve surround myself with people that basically live that code. And I’ve surrounded myself with people better than me in their disciplines. And when I said to our engineer, we need to, we need to get more more out of this our capacity, he goes I know what to do, and I want to, and I know when he said that I could trust the outcome of what of what he would produce. And similarly, you know, right around the office. I’ve got people that jump into action. And it, it was a little bit of chaos for a while I, I did a post that we’ve done it, and the internet lit up. Yeah. And we literally got hundreds of orders over the weekend. And I kind of didn’t tell anyone. And you know what, we’re a business that handles 10 large invoices a day. And we’ve literally gone to a business managing hundreds and hundreds of invoices. So it was a bit chaotic. And you know what, Murray, I don’t back off from the decision we did, because we’re sitting here today, the business is still viable. And it could have been another another story.

Murray Guest  11:24

Yeah, yeah. There’s a saying, and I’m going to misquote this, I’m sure, but around, you hire the right people, and you treat them well. And now what I’m hearing from you also is get out of their way so they can do what they’re paid to do, like engineers, and it’s fantastic to hear mate.

Greg Gates  11:44

Murray, that’s my intent sometimes I do get in the way. And I’m probably told to move, but but actually a culture of honesty. And you know, it’s okay to have a, an open debate with rigor. And we often do it, and there’s room to do it. And usually rigor brings a better result.

Murray Guest  12:04

So has there been any lessons for you, as you reflect on, you know, obviously, it’s quite recent, even a little raw, how quickly this happened, any lessons that stand out for you already, that you you think have been really valuable?

Greg Gates  12:17

Um, probably what we’ve just covered for me to get out of the way sometimes. And I’m so intent to protect the viability of our business and our people. Two weeks ago, we had two staff bought their first house, two different staff bought their first. And that’s important to me. And I would say that my drive and passion to make sure this is successful has sometimes got in the way. The other thing, I made an absolute mistake of is when I noticed that the world was being affected by this issue. I looked at what was happening in Italy, and most of the commercial dishwashers in the world come out of Italy. And I took a decision to increase our stock holdings of Australian made components that we would need to build Australian made machines because I was unsure of the impact on Italy. Well, now I’ve got all these pumps, and no one to buy them. So you know, I did make a mistake. Now my intent was, I want to make sure that no matter what happens in the world, we’re right, you sell those pumps, I’ve just got a bit more inventory than I need. So sometimes you make a a call on you on your gut feel. And and you get it wrong. And I will do it again. And I want to minimize it. But every day these changes, and we’re just trying to keep up with it.

Murray Guest  13:49

Yeah. Can I ask how do you or what have you needed to implement within the facility to manage some of the physical distancing requirements?

Greg Gates  14:01

Right. So at first our current plant, the plant that we’ve always had, was really a concentrated plant, and it was quite small and its operation and if we wanted to put some volume through that, we would have problems with with with the the distance. Yeah. So when I said to our engineer, I need a bigger line and he said I’m onto it and I know what to do, that’s what he was talking about. So we spaced out the the the filling heads, two motors apart. We arranged ourselves that people had plenty of space and plenty of room to move. And we also got some help from a third party around a C 19 policy and made everyone read the document, sign it and then at least we were aware of the space. The other thing that we did do because we literally have people, if I look, if I look out the window near their cars at the front wanting to pick up an sanitizer, which is awesome. Yeah, they are number one priority is people’s safety, our people’s safety. And so the other thing we did was any foreign person that comes in, we literally follow them, we brief them, and then we follow them with sanitizer, and anything they touch, we clean up after them. So really, because we’re doing a lot of sanitizing, it doesn’t mean we’re out of the woods, all it means is that we are super vulnerable to anyone that that could end up with a cough. And so we’re really vigilant on who comes in the building, the gates locked, and you could only get in by appointment.

Murray Guest  15:54

Yeah, gotcha. I’ve seen footage on some of the news stories around some other sanitizing methods, whether using like a high pressure hose and or type of system, you know, spraying is that the sort of opportunity also for you, as a business to provide some of that type of solution as well. 

Greg Gates  16:14

Without a doubt, I say sanitizing or putting a disinfectant on hard surface will be a set of behaviors that become more more prevalent. And I, we’ve already got products that can do that, one of the conversations we’ve had so far is about putting it in a misting or a fogging machine that would allow that product to settle. But already now we’ve got a hard surface sanitizer that helps, you know, kill the bugs. So that’s definitely a trend and it will be a big trend. And what our view is, is for products and one is a good hand wash. The other one’s a good hand sanitizer. And the way we recommend that is your best protection from these viruses, you wash your hands thoroughly, right. And we’ll say for 15 or 20 seconds, and you do it with a good soap and lots of water. And use a clean towel or a hand towel that you can dispose, that is your best protection, do it five times a day or more. Sometimes, you can’t do that. Because when you fill your car up at the, the Shell, there’s no hand basin and, and certainly the the the pumps are a good hand sanitizer, actually, I get a Maccas wrap from the back of the Stinger and hold the hold the pump with it and then throw it in the bin. So or anything else but you know, avoid touching services, and then a hand sanitizers perfect for that. So yeah, that’s the first two products the second and they’re of a personal use. The second one is about your environment. One is about a hard surface sanitizer and there’s kind of like a food grade one that won’t affect any food or any sort of food area that you that you use. And then there’s more of a disinfectant, which is a, I guess more power that you would put up on a hard surface. And we kind of go if you’ve got an environment where someone’s touching the door a lot, someone’s touching the screen a lot, someone’s touching anything that’s a common place that people touch, you should be cleaning that off several times a day. And that’s your best chance. So I think the fogging idea is definitely something that’s coming. And already I see companies like Flick have turned their pest control in the way if you get COVID19 we’ll come in and sanitize your office. It’s just wonderful seeing how people are being creative with what’s in front of them. Because probably termites are the last thing you’re thinking of. And they’ve been able to, you know, I don’t know whether they had that service before. But it looks like they’ve made the pivot into something that’s relevant. So it’s it’s wonderful seeing other people do it.

Murray Guest  19:16

Yeah, it totally is. And I’m, I’m inspired by all the different elements of pivoting that I’m seeing. We got a delivery yesterday from a local consortium of a fruit and vege place a bakery and a raw food place, all delivered to our front door yesterday. So we’re supporting local community and they provide an easy to get to us. And again, these ways that people think about how can I provide value right now in a way that before this crisis, they wouldn’t have even thought of I’d say.

Greg Gates  19:51

Yeah. Oh, and you know, I saw something on social the other day of Best Buys in the US had a remote control car with a basket on it that people would just drive up kind of in the car park they’d run the remote control car with whatever they purchased out to them, they picked it up out of the basket and drove it back. And it was kind of like a great game. So even people are making a bit of fun out of the the tough situation that we’re in.

Murray Guest  20:24

Now, maybe I don’t know what level information you’ve got, but what are you hearing about how long we’re going to be in this situation for?

Greg Gates  20:33

So my, my friends laugh at me because I listened to American politics, but in truth, that’s probably the pointy end of the Western conversation. Yep. And if I observe what’s happening there, they’re gonna say that it’s it’s going to be longer than shorter. And I think this is a horrible thing to have to say. But I think the possible deaths of the virus versus the impact of the economy, it’s, you know, I don’t know what’s going to be worse. And, you know, already people are going crazy by not being able to move. And, you know, it’s certainly a couple of weeks in, I think, if Australia goes anywhere near America, as unemployment, right, we’re in for a tough time and also predict that inflation will once we’ve kind of throw it all and in the whole herd things happened or whatever. And when there’s some confidence to go back outside and we’re allowed to, I think inflation is gonna fly, there’s gonna be a whole lot of businesses that are going broke, consumers will be keen to spend something because they’re allowed out. And I think demand will outstrip supply. And I think we’re in for a rough year or two. And it’s, it’s going to be interesting to navigate that. And if I was to describe, kind of where our heads out as a business, our whole focus has to be on efficiency and efficiency is important. But if I observe what we’re doing, efficiency, probably isn’t that the front of what we’re thinking, it’s resilience. So how do we move to whatever’s going on? And I think that as a set of words. I think resilience, which means I want to be in control of my supply chain, I don’t want to be stuck. Because some other country made a mistake and now I’m affected or want to be, I think we’ll see an Australian made sentiment really coming back strong. I think people will be saying, I want to take control of my lot. And all wouldn’t be surprised that this probably takes us between one or two years to actually climb out of. And we’ll probably still feel the effects for five. But yeah, that’s my view. It might change tomorrow. But um, but I, I think that would be reasonable.

Murray Guest  23:19

Yeah, well, I think every day there’s different information coming out isn’t there and, and what you and I were talking before we started recording today about, we’ve got an insight into the future by what’s happening overseas. I know you’re passionate about manufacturing in Australia, my background years ago, as well. And I love what you’re saying though, that this the the gift out of this crisis. One of those elements is the resurgence, hopefully, of manufacturing in Australia and those jobs that that will provide.

Greg Gates  23:52

And we’ll go off predicted for some time manufacturing, will come back to Australia, if I look at everything that went on offshore over the last 15 years in terms of say metal trades, or anything made of metal. If I look at the input cost of something made out of metal, that’s the metal itself. It’s labour, labour and overheads and then probably transport and I go China versus Australia, if you follow the trend, up until what just happened. The labour rate to China kept growing really, really fast in the double digits. The cost of steel, broadly is about the same around the world. I mean, there’s some variances but it moves together. And the cost of transport’s going up so you follow those lines versus back in Australia the cost is still being stable, wages are stable, and there’s little transport cost because we’re not shipping from overseas at some point. It’ll be more viable with technology to make in Australia than what it will be in it. Another part of the world. So that’s what we’ve observed. So I believe it was coming anyway, the impact of 15 years of draining talent out of the country is that tradesmen will be hard to get the kinds of people because of computers, and you know how machines work, they’re the kinds of people that we would be looking for for the future might look different to what they might normally be. So I say was inevitable, this will force it.

Murray Guest  25:33

Yeah, yep. And force it quicker. As we’ve just said, we’ve been talking about that innovation. And whilst you’ve said, you’re looking at resiliency versus continuous improvement, I’m saying from what you’re doing right now, they’re going hand in hand.

Greg Gates  25:48

Yeah, probably. But I if, if I look at fall, I look at what we’re doing around supply chain, like for me to do a speculation on 500 pallets of bottles would have been a ridiculous supply chain decision. And in the context of what’s going on, it wasn’t. It was actually turned out to be a good decision to make because I’ve got bottles, and I can pack something in it. I’ve got, I’ve talked to people with lots of raw material, no bottles, I’ve talked to people with bottles and no raw material. And I’ve talked to people without both right. And we’re in a position where we can supply a product. And actually, it’s personal for me. Well, my wife’s a nurse. And what I get from her front line story is the hospitals are starting to go a bit mad, and it’s getting crazy. They’ve got no PPE or little PPE. And what they might wear in an hour, they’re having to wear for days. And you know, even through some nurses being abused for wearing scrubs outside of the building. And so it is it is getting crazy when she says she can’t get hand sanitizer. I’m like, I’m really keen to make sure anything we do is pointed at the hospitals. In fact, I took some down to the local police station and said, I banged on the on the window. And they kind of looked at me and said, can we help you? I said, Who’s the boss? And I said, what the big boss or just the boss? I said, The Big Boss. And anyway, he come out and I said, I hate you guys. And they’re looking at me. And I said, I hate you when you give me a ticket. But I said in truth I love what you do. We’re just making hand sanitizer up the road and I wanted to give you one of the first bottles. And then we went and kept talking about what was going on for them. And he says our life has changed dramatically. People are more upset. People are drinking more. There’s more violence. You know what we’re dealing with all of this and these people need to be protected at the front line. So you know, I I get upset when someone rings me and says can you supply and they want to profiteer off it, and I will not supply them. And I won’t. Anyone that will get this material to the front line and have it on people’s hands so they can keep them as safe as they can be. That’s all I want to talk to. So I’ve I’ve actually told one guy, I don’t want to deal with him and put the phone down and he said, Would you reconsider? I said No, I won’t. And so that there are some people trying to profiteer out of it. And it clearly is upsetting to me, but it’s about keeping our people safe, that’s got to do the work. And because the reality is this, there’s no sanitizer in the in the supply chain. There’s no raw materials in the supply chain. And if we look at the history of how this thing goes, we’re about to spike and our frontline people aren’t ready for it. We’re trying to do something about it.

Murray Guest  29:05

Yeah, I’m noticing, Greg, as you talk, and in some of our conversations before just about values and how important values you are, and I’m hearing your values come through quite strongly from a leadership perspective and the people you work with. Before this even started, I’m assuming, tell me if I’m wrong, mate. But that’s just part of the way that you are and the way that you lead the business.

Greg Gates  29:29

Well, it’s actually your, you’re right, I do have values. I worked for sanitarian health foods for a long time. And what I learned was the profit they made they put back into the community and it’s just the way we thought. And being part of Sirron Holdings. The founder of Sirron Holdings, a guy called John Watts, who actually passed away last Friday, which is very sad to us. But one of his values was to look after the place and look after the vulnerable. And it was actually the, the vulnerable side was a value that he got from his mom. And she used to give a lot to charity. In fact, a lot of Sirron Holdings’ profit, goes to 10 different charities every year. And the better we do, the more we give to charity so that there’s a real strong value in who we are, and how we relate to others. So it’s actually part of the culture, it comes from the, from the like, founder, it goes through to the board and myself and the staff. So that’s, that’s where we are.

Murray Guest  30:38

Yeah, gotcha. So if we’ve got a leader in a business, or an owner of a business, and they’re listening to this conversation we’re having, and they’re thinking about how they could provide a service, serve their clients or innovate, what would be a bit of inspiration you could give them for how they could get things going?

Greg Gates  31:02

Well, I’m not sure about inspiration, what I what I can say is anything that I’ve observed for me that we’ve done, desperations always lived there. Desperation is a good motivator sometimes. And it makes you look around you and say, what else around me that I can see that I can put together. And actually, that’s what we’ve done. In this case. And I, you mentioned before about people being innovative, you know, delivering the food and whatever, I heard of a service, it was delivering pre made cocktails, and I’m like, you know what, fantastic in a built up area, that that’s it’s almost novel that the cocktails turn up at the door. And you know, what, fantastic. So look around you and see, you know, what’s there, people have still got money. People still want to interact with somebody. All I can say is do that.

Murray Guest  32:08

I totally agree. And I think that there’s just things that maybe we hadn’t even thought of before that are possible. And there was a saying, I learned back in my time at masterfoods, which was, do you ask for permission or beg for forgiveness? And mate, you sound like a let’s get into it and beg for forgiveness later on down the track?

Greg Gates  32:28

All directors of the company would say that, and sometimes that works for me, sometimes it doesn’t. But in reality, we can only go with a judgment that’s in front of us, sometimes we make a home run, sometimes we don’t. And I’ve got a lot of dishwasher pumps in stock at the moment. And so if anybody, you know, needs one, let me know. And we will sell them at some point. But um, as we did took the pump with the packaging. We couldn’t be doing what we’re doing now, if we hadn’t done it. And so, you know, sometimes you just got to do it.

Murray Guest  33:04

So something I think is really important in organizations is communication. And I’m just wondering, what’s changed in your communication to the staff at the moment to help keep everyone on the same page and aligned with what’s going on?

Greg Gates  33:19

Well, I would describe the last few weeks is, you know, it’s been chaotic. And the notion of same page, everyone would have their, their version of it. And it’s unlikely, because the move was so quick. I would say wherever I can I intend to encourage someone for their efforts that they’re doing, even though it’s not perfect, right. And you know, we’ve got bottles coming off the line, if we don’t have boxes, to back it up, because the shipment’s late or whatever, they’re frustrated, and, you know, or I’m doing Facebook posts that tell people what we’re doing and linking people to the website without telling anyone. But those kinds of things are happening. But we are smoothing things out. And to answer your question it’s about saying, Look, I know it’s not perfect now. But we’re getting through it. We’re employed, people’s mortgage, people’s mortgages are paid, food on the table. We’re right, we’ll get better over time. And if if someone’s got a complaint or whatever, we’re open to talk about it.

Murray Guest  34:36

Greg, I’ve absolutely loved catching up with you, mate, we had some thoughts about talking about manufacturing and some of the things that you’ve learned over the years, but considering what’s going on in the world right now and how you as a business have pivoted. I think this has been such more of a valuable conversation in for this podcast, but I’ll tell you what, I’m going to get you back on here when things have changed or as you said earlier, we get to the other side of the U, whatever that looks like, because I know you’ve got some real value to share from a leadership perspective and around how we can learn from manufacturing Australia. So I want to thank you for being so open about what you’ve been doing. And I’m sure people listening and they get inspired to think about how they can serve their not just their customers, but their community as well. 

Greg Gates  35:25

Well it’s a privilege to be on Murray and I was thrilled when you asked me and I said, we’re busy, but we’re doing it. Because our recording will be fun, that was and happy to come back anytime.

Murray Guest  35:37

Also, mate. Now I do ask everyone at the end of the podcast, what’s their definition definition of inspired energy? So I’d love for you to let me know and let all our listeners know what that is for you.

Greg Gates  35:49

Well, inspiration comes out of something you associate with that’s usually the truth, right? And if someone was to ask me how I feel, and they have…[recording skips] I feel very empty, and struggling to be inspired. So you know, that’s my answer.

Murray Guest  36:13

Right, that is beautiful. Thank you. And you are a leader that speaks from the heart and that ownership and that the values based leadership and way that you care, I’m sure comes across in the way that you’ve set up the culture within Sirron Holdings, and all of the companies so can’t wait to talk more with you. To be honest, mate we need to have a beer at some stage down the track as well.

Greg Gates  36:40

Yeah let’s do a zoom beer, I’m up for it. And when this madness is out I’d love to catch up.

Murray Guest  36:51

So if someone wants some hand sanitizer, or they want to know more about the business, where’s the best place to go right now.

Greg Gates  36:59

So the the group is Sirron Holdings sirronholdings.com.au. And if you want to buy hand sanitizer, it’s about 50 bucks for five liters, which is pretty cheap. I’ve pitched it, all we’ve got is bulk, I’m sorry, but that’s what we’ve got. And you can buy it online. Zexa.com.au. And we’ll ship it as fast as we can.

Murray Guest  37:26

Mate. Well, that’s fantastic. And I’ll make sure there’s links to both of those in the notes for the podcast. So people can have a look at the business and the great work you do for the community and the the charities that you support, but also if they want to pick up some hand sanitizer as well. I really appreciated the chance to catch up. I know you are busy. You’ve got a lot going on. And you’ve got a lot of people there to lead. So thanks so much for your time. Thanks, it’s been fantastic.

Greg Gates  37:56

Love your work, Murray. Thank you.