Episode 51 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Charlotte Jameson

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Welcome Charlotte to the podcast as we head into another decade, I’m so looking forward to talking to you about wellbeing and digital wellbeing. How are you?

Charlotte Jameson  

I’m really well, thank you, Murray, how are you?

Murray Guest  

I’m fantastic. I’ve been loving these conversations we’re having with people about the past decade and what’s coming up for this decade. And hearing all your insights, and I know connecting with you, you’ve got a lot to share as well. And I’m actually really looking forward to this 2020s. And what they hold for us.

Charlotte Jameson  

Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s going to be interesting, I think. I actually hold a lot of faith in the youth, to be honest, for 2020 and beyond. I think there’s consciousness that that the youth can bring to society. So I’m looking forward to seeing that really unfold.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Well, I think in the last few years, we’ve certainly seen a lot more activism around climate change and around inequality, and people standing up and making sure those voices are heard. When you think about the youth, and what’s going to be ahead for them going forward this next decade, what do you think is going to be some of the, I guess, the challenges going forward?

Well, I kind of think that there’s going to be two, sort of two types, there’s going to be those who have really been fortunate enough to understand the brain and understand themselves, understand what modern day life really holds. And then there’s going to be the other the other sort of group who haven’t had those opportunities to understand those sorts of things. And they’re not going to be privy to understand, it’s like diet, you know, and smoking, a lot of people just did it, and they didn’t realize, well, I think there’s going to be a group that don’t realize the impact that technology is going to have on our brain, on our eyes on our muscles, on our mental health. They don’t realize that how, how sleep is such a priority for life and for the ability to actually thrive in life. And so by just by pure unawareness, they’re not going to prioritize sleep, or they’re not going to prioritize downtime, or switching off for, you know, time in nature, just simply because they don’t necessarily know. And then there’s going to be that group that do, are privy to that information, and have the opportunity to actually take the time out and to do those things. And to be, you know, to socialize with people who are like minded in that sort of way. And I think that they’re really going to, you know, take things forward. So it’s a bit of a mission for me, too, for anybody who wants to hear about it, to let them know these things, because I think everybody has, you know, everyone has a right to information. Yeah, they don’t have to take it up. But I think everyone, you know, has a right to know what they’re doing. When they, when they’re actually involved in these sorts of technologies or, or deprioritize, sleep and that sort of thing. So

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and I actually know that in the space that you play in, working with different organizations and helping them improve their culture and that understanding of digital well being, that there’s a big push in a lot of organizations to share that information with people as well, which is great to see, isn’t it that it’s not just something that’s outside of those initiatives within organizations?

Yeah, yeah, the the push for it, even in the last sort of five years, I’ve noticed is really, we’ve been in the last three years, to be honest, Murray that, there, it’s really everyone’s starting to get on the mental health bandwagon. And it’s not just a stigma of, you know, let’s just stop depression and anxiety. It’s, hey, we can actually have well being, we can actually go to work, or here’s, here’s a thought, let’s go to work and actually be better as a result of going to work. Let’s improve our mental wellbeing, by actually going to work and that’s, that I think, is really cool. Because that taps into people tapping into their meaning and purpose.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And I think, imagine a world where it’s not we work five days, and then I’m just living for the weekend for those two days. But I’m actually loving going to work each day. And I feel better when I go home each day, not worse. And I’m just then waiting to go and party on the weekends.

Yeah, and I think it’s, it’s even more pertinent now as we move into the 2020s. Because it is, you know, on the increase. And just by having technology, you know, being able to access, having work so accessible, the lines are blurred, as we know, so it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, we’ve got to navigate this really carefully. There are some people, so for me, I’m, I like to sort of go in and out of things. And so it doesn’t, it doesn’t really bother me, I sort of put this hat on, I put that hat on, and I kind of do it seamlessly. But, you know, for other people that either that all or nothing, they’re like, Today I’m in work mode or today I’m in friend mode or parent mode or whatever mode. So I think it’s, it’s yeah, people are going to really work with this differently. And I think organizations have to be really mindful of, you know, how we how we navigate those, those blurriness. But I think if people have true meaning and purpose, then that helps a lot.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. 100%. Now, I want to come back to thinking about the upcoming decade, but also want to just tap into a minute with the about this past decade. Yeah, and what that’s been like for you, and some of those things that we can celebrate and acknowledge, because let’s be honest, there’s not enough acknowledgement and recognition in the world. Yeah. When you think about the past decade, what some things that stand out for you? Let’s take a moment to reflect on and celebrate.

Well, for me, personally, a lot has changed. I mean, the time of my life where I got married, I had kids, my career went from, you know, me sort of just absorbing, absorbing, absorbing to actually providing and actually being able to sort of give back, as well. And it’s sort of finished with me being in a bit more of a mentoring capacity with some of my colleagues and, and that’s been a huge growth. And pretty cool to kind of go back and be like, Wow, I’m actually the person who people people ask now. So that’s, that’s, that’s been a really big movement for me. I think organizations have have gone through a pretty, pretty big growth, I think, just tapping back into a conversation before about well, just the the focus on mental health and well being. I was, I was very much in the safety, as you know, in the safety industry. And that was, you know, that changed the decade before. And I think it’s been solidified this decade. But what I’ve seen, and maybe it’s through the work that I’ve been, you know, doing, but is safety is still there, but it’s more common sense, like it’s people, it’s not just oh, you’re doing safety now. No, we are safe.

Murray Guest  

And I love the evolution when you talk about safety, that it’s not the physical safety. Yeah, 10 years ago, it was, How are we managing our risks, managing our hazards to make sure people go home physically safe, fingers and toes. There’s now, if you say safety in a corporate based environment, and people think about the psychological safety, which I think is fantastic.

Yeah. And we, the program I was working with, we were talking about this notion of being safe to be well, and well to be safe, because you can’t have one without the other. And, yeah, and especially when you sort of think about the psychosocial factors as well, the play on that. So it’s a really juicy, juicy area, and we’re only sort of putting more and more focus into it. And I think everyone’s benefiting from that. So yeah, there’s been a huge transition for organizations to really think about that.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And how does it feel going back a second to the mentoring sort of sensation, and you had a bit of pride talking about that, which is fantastic, though. So how does that feel when you share your knowledge and experiences with others now? Your work colleagues and other people?

Well, I’ve always, I mean, I’ve always thought of myself as more of a coaching kind of person, someone who, you know, who gives but I guess I never really thought that I had much to give. It was more sort of a listening thing. But I can I can really see now that you know, I guess with juniors, sort of coming up in the role of facilitation, when I when I facilitate workshops, things that I just feel a common sense or just just a natural thing. It’s actually taken a good decade of hard repetition and focus and practice for me, for me to actually get to that point. So having having the juniors sort of come up and and, you know, helping them understand, you know, facilitation one on one kind of thing has, yeah, it has it’s been, I think it’s been a record of the journey that I’ve been on, but also this idea of, there were so many people who helped me get to where I am and now I get to do that as well. So yeah, yes, that’s pretty cool.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, it is. I can hear that from you as well. And I think it’s great to acknowledge that and that you’re passing on that knowledge, that experience, and as you said, and like a quote that we’ve heard before, sometimes after treading the boards, you need to do that so much as a facilitator to actually experience it and to actually really understand that and pass that on. So it’s great you’re doing that. Any lessons you’ve had in the past decade that stands out to you that you’re happy to share?

Charlotte Jameson  

I think and I was reflecting on this, because I mean, I’m all about sort of setting intentions for the for the for the new year. But I think, when I’m true to myself, that’s when things work.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And what does that look like for you?

It means, it means that I honor what I need. So motherhood has been a very, very big adjustment. In terms of I used to do a lot of physical exercise and a lot of just stuff for myself basically. And when you become a mother, or a parent or whatever, you know, that time gets less and less and less. And the importance of prioritizing that. And so I’ve had a big journey. I always talked about Yeah, you’ve got to put your oxygen mask on first, and you got to, you know, look after yourself first. But it’s really become apparent. If I’m not if I’m not going, if I’m not working, nobody else is. Yeah. So I’ve really, I’ve really started to become okay with prioritizing what I need. So I need to go to yoga. All right, I need to do, you know, exhibit A, this, this podcast, I need to do these things. Because it makes me, it’s it’s meaningful for me, and it makes me happy. And I’ve got to be okay with that. And that helps other people. So that’s being true to myself. What do I need to operate in, in in Charlotte, you know? 

Murray Guest  

A quote I heard last year that I absolutely loved and you’re reminding me of it right now is self care is not selfish.

Yeah. Well it took me so long to work that out. Yeah. And I still struggle with it. But it’s yeah, it’s it’s not selfish at all. In fact, it’s selfish not to, it’s yeah, it’s silly not to.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and particularly when you frame it up, that you’ve got people in your life that need you, that you need to care for, that you need to provide for in some way, that if you don’t look after yourself, how are you able to do that for them?

And even when you think about it from a work perspective, as well, one of my one of my dear colleagues, she she’s a real giver, and she’s a real, you know, goes 100 miles an hour, and has spent sort of the last year sorry, the last couple of months, actually quite debilitated through through some illness and that sort of thing. And she’s not able to, to give. Yeah. And, and so it is it’s that recognition of now, a lot of things going on here. But the you know, the thing I’m pulling out is, if you’ve run yourself into the ground, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t do what you want to do.

Murray Guest  

Certainly one of the biggest lessons I’ve gotten in the past decade, and I think it links to a lot of the things we’re talking about at the moment is listening to your body. And those little signals that your body gives you that something’s a bit off or not quite right, whether that’s mental, emotional, physical, and quite often as humans, we just push through and we keep going. Yeah, but actually listening to those signals and taking action on them sooner. And they’re there and let’s listen to them. Because when we don’t, we push through, that’s when we get to a situation of being so unwell we can’t actually do the things we want to do in our life. Yeah.

And it’s not about slacking off either. I was, I’ve done a lot of reflecting lately, but I was in a yoga class and, you know, the teachers sort of saying, don’t push yourself too much, or whatever. And I was just thinking, Yeah, I think that’s a really, it’s a, it’s a really good thing to think about, especially in this world when we go you know, we just stay on that treadmill the whole time. But also something that I’m working with is knowing when I’m taking the kind of the easy way out as well. And it’s just a fine, it’s a fine balance between pushing yourself to kind of strive and thrive and not burning out. So yeah. I always like to think about taking that with a pinch of salt. It’s like yes, you know, be kind to yourself, but also be kind to yourself by like, by really sort of pushing yourself as well, in a way.

Murray Guest  

Okay, so if someone’s listening to this conversation, and they’re thinking, Okay, I feel so busy with parenting, with my partner, with work, with life, how do I actually do something about this, this sense of being on the wheel and go go go but I’m not looking after myself. What’s a tip that you’ve got, that you’ve realized that you would pass on.

Charlotte Jameson  

Prioritize sleep.

Murray Guest  

Okay, so that’s it?

Having had it ripped from me for like the last six years. No, I think I mean, I think if you if you have a good night’s sleep, everything, everything works works better and you’re able to do better. Like you’re able to challenge yourself in a healthy way more when you have had that rested sleep. So I think, the one thing that I would I would say is prioritize that sleep. So I give myself a sleep curfew. Because I find it really hard. The only time I get to see my husband is you know, for about 10 minutes at night time, basically. And you know, sometimes TV is like a way that we I know it sounds stupid, but a way we connect. Because we just sit together we just go oh my gosh, what a day kind of thing. Yeah. But sometimes that that eats into my ability to go to sleep.

Murray Guest  

So what time is your curfew?

Charlotte Jameson  

Mine is nine. Yeah. Well, five, 530. Yeah, so.

Murray Guest  

I’m similar. I’m 9:30. But I seem to wake up five, 5:30 as well, every morning. And even just recently in this sort of holiday period have stayed up a bit late to watch a movie or other things, I still get up my body clock is five 530. And honestly, it is such a, an a magical time of the day, if you know that early sunrise time.

It is. Mine is not so magical, mine is sort of screaming with kids. Look, I can’t wait to have my Miracle Morning back again. And it’s just, it’s just not feasible at the moment because my kids sort of wake up. But, you know, I have faith that it’s going to happen soon, they’re going to get to that 6am mark, and I’m going to have at least 20 minutes to kind of meditate by myself or go out for a cheeky run at the beach. And I think that’s the whole the whole point about mental fitness is we all have different things in life that sort of provide different challenges. And it may not seem horrendous to hear that you’ve got kids who wake up at five 530. But for me it is because I usually have the morning, well before kids, it was all about my morning. And I’d go and do the exercise and I’d get in the right frame of mind. And I just you know, the rest of the day sort of unfolded. Whereas now I don’t, I don’t have that, which is why I need to prioritize my sleep. Because that, you know, that’s gonna get me me through that. But it’s also sort of saying, I’ve got this great quote that I keep sort of saying in life is, pain is temporary but glory lasts forever. And it is pain is only, this sort of pain that I’m feeling right now, you know, with the kids that are waking up and ruining my morning. It’s only temporary, you know, it’s not going to last forever. So I just have to find other ways in the day to get what I would get out.

Murray Guest  

I also think what you’re saying is focus on what you can do in the situation you’ve got right now, focus on what’s in your control. But also who was in your life that helps you do that? So I know in our house, what we talk about as well, okay, so with three children, with my wife, well what’s the conversations we need to have to create the environment so that we can all be at our best? And what does that look like? And I can imagine this to be a conversation you have in the near future, my youngest who loves his devices, so devices that he’ll get up at 530 but it’s no device until seven o’clock. Yeah. And we let that slip, and then we can see the impact it has on him. And so we then say, ok now bring that back. So I guess what I’m thinking about is it’s such a conversation that needs to involve everybody, not just on looking after my sleep and not everybody else. Like how do we all support each other in that is really important.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think when we get lost in the day to day, or we just sort of go along in life. You need that map. You need that map to guide you. Because otherwise it gets a bit too. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

It does. Now looking forward, 2020s, roaring 20s… Maybe some cool clothes, cool hair, maybe prohibition? Who knows what’s gonna happen? 

Charlotte Jameson  

Hey the possibilities out there.

Murray Guest  

But there they are. They are. What is some of your hopes or goals for the next decade that you’re happy to put out? I’ve had some conversations with people in this series where they’ve been putting out some personal goals as a way to sort of make it real. Or it might be career goals, or it could be just some hopes you’ve got for the work that you’re doing going forward. What does that look like for you?

Well, I, I have, I’m going to start the sort of the school system soon, with my daughter entering school. And I see myself as being a quiet role model. So I want to I really, I mean, okay, let’s face it, I really, really want to change, I want to, I want to change this, this, this need for everybody to be over committed, and being the best at everything. And I think that if we can just help everybody tap into our strengths, and, and see how we can sort of develop our strengths further, and do it in a way that’s not going to over commit ourselves, I think, when we have so many, and I’m, you know, I was one of those over committed children. And I think it worked to a degree because it kept me out of trouble. And it helped me sort of prioritize things, but there wasn’t a whole lot of time for downtime. And I think that’s really important, especially as we’re now competing with technology and, and those sorts of things, we really now more than ever need to help our children and help each other, give the give our brains the time it needs to, to make those memories to consolidate those memories and to innovate new things. That only happens when we have that white space. Yeah, we’re going from activity to activity. These kids are exhausted, we’re exhausted taking them there. And, you know, dinner gets pushed back a bit later, homework gets pushed back late later, sleep gets deprioritized. And it’s that that sort of vicious cycle. So whilst I’m I’m I definitely think there’s, you know, there’s room for people to notice, okay, what are their strengths? What are their really big interests? Let’s, you know, let’s nurture that and commit to, you know, I’m not against sort of extracurricular activities, by any means. But it’s this, it’s this busyness, it’s this, you know, oh, we need to do, you know, this code of football, this code of, you know, this musical interest and this and this, and this, it’s sort of, I’d like to think that I, and you can check back in with me next year. Just sort of, to go, Okay, what, you know, let’s just choose a few things and sort of get really good at that. And if if you want to change your mind next year, sort of just trying to nurture grit a bit more as well, sticking to something and, and building on that. 

Murray Guest  

I think we’re totally aligned in parenting approaches there. And I, I agree with you, I have had conversations with some parents over the years where I hear what’s in their calendar, and not just the busyness, but the rushingness that comes with that as well, like, we’re going to this and we’re going to rush to that, and rush to that, and they’re filling up all that time. And I totally agree that importance of whitespace doing nothing, or actually having some just time with the children or the children being by themselves. I totally agree with that. And I think that starting that off, while your daughter’s starting high school or sorry, school now is such a, you know, start start early and start those habits early to go along with as opposed to trying to create those 10 years from now.

Yeah, but I think I think it starts with the parents as well, because, you know, we’re so busy doing this, I mean, work is just it can just take up so much time, especially because we’ve got we’ve got the ability to work from home and everything, just all the all you can to do is is and I you know, I speak generally, but it’s all consuming. And so we’re always rushing to a meeting or to a work or to this or to that. And it’s and it’s really putting the onus back on on us as the adults and sort of think, Okay, well, how can I create whitespace for myself? And that, that generally rubs off on people. And how that will affect them.

Murray Guest  

I totally agree. And I am far from perfect as a father and get this moment recently that I just want to share where my son said to me, I’m bored, and I said, Good.

Yes. Yeah. Rejoice in that.

Murray Guest  

I’m glad. He’s like, What do you mean? And I said, well, like if I was if I said that to my parents when I was his age was like well go outside and play you know, off you go, go play in the street, on your bike, whatever it is. And I think that too often these days, it’s easy to slip into, well, what can I give them? What can I feed them? What sort of bit of attention can they have? A device or whatever it might be? So don’t feel that boredom is bad. That being bored creates space for reflection for creativity, of innovation, whatever it might be, for them to go searching for something, as opposed to just giving it to them.

Yeah. And you think, you know, you’ve gone out to lunch or, or something with someone and they’ve gone to pay or they’ve gone to the toilet and you’re sitting there, you know, what do you do? Do you stare and sort of just blank out? Or do you reach for your smartphone or, or whatever? 

Murray Guest  

And more often than not yeah it’s on the phone. And you see it on public transport all the time, as well. Yeah, yeah. So linking back to what you’re talking about earlier, and that digital well being. What do you see as some of those things, we need to be really mindful going forward? I mean, that’s a real simple tip, right? There is don’t go for that first instinct to pick up the device when you’re by yourself. But thinking about these this next decade, and the digital impact, what are some of those things that you think we need to be really mindful?

Charlotte Jameson  

I think doing one thing at a time, I think it’s really hard in this day and age to be okay with doing one thing at a time, we need progress we need to achieve. But I think doing one thing at a time helps us do it better. And helps us be more effective. And it also it’s what our brain is structured for. So we can certainly do a few things at a time. But we’re just we’re just toggling our attention. When we’re not, we’re not, we’re not able to do two things at once. So not multitasking, doing one thing at a time and meditate in your own way. So, you know, there’s doesn’t we don’t all have to sit and be a yogi on a rock on a mountain. But it is helping our brains focus our attention. So for me, the most easiest thing to do is, is just focusing on your breath. And that has an amazing impact on your parasympathetic nervous system. So helping people to actually engage in that, that, that calming, that’s going to happen when you do a deep breath. But also, it also helps train your brain to focus on one thing at a time. And you can do that by sitting on a rock in a mountain. Or you can do that while you’re going for a run or a walk. Or while you’re listening to music. Or while you’re waiting for your coffee. It doesn’t have to be in the traditional, you know, sense of being a yoga yogi, you can just tune into your breath at any given moment. And that’s going to help your brain focus its attention.

Murray Guest  

And a phrase that I’ve learned in the last few years is active meditation. I previously thought it was I had to go and sit on a rock and close my eyes and be in that perfect pose cross legged to meditate. But no, this idea of active meditation, like you’re talking about focusing on your breath while doing an activity. I’ve heard people say it’s when they’re washing up the dishes or when they’re vacuuming the floor, or they’re in the garden or whatever it might be. But it’s that that focus coming back to them on that one thing.

Yeah, well, we’re all different, different strokes for different folks. And I’m different at different parts of the day as well. So sometimes I like to sit and just stay still. But other times I need to move. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Now I’m going to give you the opportunity to hire a sky writer, and they’re going to put a message across the earth. And this message is everybody’s going to see it, everybody can read it, they can’t avoid it. What is this one message you would love everyone to see, and to get to help them be successful in the next decade?

Wow. I think I think it’s I think I think to give, to give meditation a go in its own form, because where we really need to look after our brain and our mind. And the way we’re going to do that is by by giving it some time to actually do its job. And if we’re if we’re we’ve got technology and we’ve got busyness then we’re taking that job away from it. So I think in meditate in your own way, I think is is possibly one of the key messages.

Murray Guest  

Love it and that’s totally different from all the other ones I’ve been talking and getting a beautiful one. I think it, I like the not meditate, because I can imagine people seeing that on the sky and going, Yeah, sure. But meditation your way, find your way. I love that. Yeah, yeah. And that empowers people again to to focus on their strengths and what that might line up for for them the way that they want to to, to get back that focus. Thank you so much for all your knowledge and sharing and inspiration and tips. It’s been amazing connecting with you Charlotte. Thank you.

Charlotte Jameson  

Thank you for the conversation. It’s been very fun.

Murray Guest  

No, that’s no trouble. But now where’s the best place online for people to find you and find more about what it is that you do?

Okay, well, my Instagram is quite active. So Charlotte Jameson is just one word, is my Instagram. But I also have a web page where you can find some blogs on Charlottejameson.com.

Murray Guest  

Great, fantastic. We’ll share the links to those in the show notes and it’s been awesome connecting with you. I’m going to check in with you at the end of this year to see how you’re going with your, your goals around parenting and busyness and balancing that. And of course, wishing you the most successful 2020s coming up as well.

Thank you, you too Muz. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you. 

Murray Guest  

Thanks, Charlotte. See ya.

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