Episode 111 – Chloe Oestreich | Executive Developmental Coach

In this episode I speak with Chloe Oestreich, who coaches leaders from Fortune 500 companies on how to communicate effectively, be heard and lead with impact.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Chloe, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for reaching out last week, we had a great chat last week getting to know you and what you do what you’re passionate about. And I am excited to chat to you about the awesome work that you do today. So thank you.

Chloe Oestreich  

Thank you, Murray. Thanks so much for having me. It’s a pleasure.

Murray Guest  

How is 2022 going for you so far this year, we’re near like the midway point. How has this year been for you?

Chloe Oestreich  

It’s been extraordinary. It’s been it’s been an amazing year, we are very, very fortunate in that we made the move up to the Northern Rivers, from big city kids, we moved up. And we’ve been loving our time up here, feeling extremely blessed to be surrounded by such amazing nature. Saw whales yesterday, and dolphins, so how can I possibly complain? It’s been, it’s been an incredible six months of settling in and becoming part of this really amazing community.

Murray Guest  

It is a beautiful part of the world. I do love it. So Northern Rivers is that northern part of New South Wales. And as you said, so full of life. It is a great part of the world. But you’ve made me think of something, and I’m just wondering, your own mindset around your business, serving your clients, people you work with, did you go through a bit of a wrestle about how do I do that when I’m living there versus living in the city? Did you go through a bit of a process there?

I did and I didn’t, here’s the thing, I was so set in my ways when COVID started, and I was convinced that I couldn’t do my job in a virtual setting, I thought, you know, my business is going to go bust, I won’t be able to see anyone. And then COVID came along, and it’s like, you got to adapt. And we did, right, we all adapted it. And in many ways, this is the new normal now. And even though people are allowed to go back into the office, lots of people are choosing to work from home. And so for my clients, even towards the end of all of the crazy lock downs, which I still very much experienced as a Melbournian, it was all horrible. Let’s not even talk about that. But you know, people were still choosing to see me in a virtual setting. And so I thought, What the hell am I doing here then if no one wants to see me in person, then surely it’s going to be okay if I if I move somewhere else, because people are fine with that. So it was a wrestle at the very beginning, when COVID started, and it was not a wrestle once we had gone through this whole, you know, adaptive period of well, this is the new normal now.

Murray Guest  

I feel like the individualised nature has come out through this journey for the last few years around each person has their unique needs and wants. And that’s really come to the fore. And whether you’re a leader or you’re leading a team, even organisations as a whole, like that uniqueness and how we work, what that looks like for me versus you and how we make all that work. I feel like that’s really came out, which is great, I think because we’re treating people like humans again.

Mm hmm. And it has allowed so much greater flexibility, right? I mean, lots of parents are finally actually getting to spend time with their children and choosing when they wish to do the work as long as they are doing the work. So while it’s been a really tough, you know, last two years, and lots of people don’t even know what happened and what happened in 2022, or what happened in 2020. I think there are also lots of positive things that have come out of it. And I’m really excited by them.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I totally agree. And I do feel for people through the journey and lots of people have had situations much, much harder than I have, that’s for sure. But yeah, if we can see the good out of it. And take that going forward, I think that’s that’s super important. Now, you spend your life as an executive coach, how did you find your, your way into being an executive coach? How did you get to that point?

Well, let me talk about my why. Yeah. I actually think that when I meet people for the very first time, that is what I am most interested in. Why do they get out of bed every morning? Why do they do what they do? So for me, this started from a really young age, I am German. I’m half German, half French Swiss. I grew up in a very stereotypical German family. I’ve got three brothers and my father and one of my brothers are engineers. And the other two are very left brained, very analytical, very rational thinkers. So I feel blessed that I was surrounded by extraordinary talent and intelligence from a very young age. But what I also noticed from a very young age, besides recognising that I was definitely the black sheep in the family was that dinner table conversations always revolved around, you know, quantum physics or mathematical equations or inventions, or patents whatever it was, and I, I didn’t understand most of it. I don’t think that’s due to the subject matter expertise, I genuinely believe that’s due to the fact that my brothers aren’t particularly great communicators. And they’re also not particularly great at the the soft skills, the emotional intelligence, the piece around how do I connect meaningfully with the audience that I’m speaking to? And the fact that my sister knows very little about this? And how do I sell this great patent, to someone who has no idea about it? And so I thought, wow, how many other people are in this situation where they’re extraordinarily skilled, they’ve got great ideas, but they actually don’t know how to sell these ideas very well. That’s where it falls down. And so that was the catalyst really, for me getting really passionate and excited about helping individuals become more impactful and more effective in the way that they communicate and the way that they lead, in the way that they present their own personal brand on a daily basis.

Murray Guest  

Do you think when you look back at those conversations around the dinner table, that you were already starting to lean into a bit of coaching? And and with that curiosity with your brothers?

Totally, totally. I mean, once I understood what they shared with me, I got really excited. I’m like, How are you not, how am I not seeing that you’re getting excited about this, I feel there’s a great disconnect between the data that you’re sharing with me and the emotional connection that you have towards your pitch, which, you know, where’s that, where’s that excitement about the fact that you might potentially be saving the world in some way, shape, or form? And so I just saw missed opportunity. And in many ways, I just saw opportunity in capital letters.

Murray Guest  

So good. So how’s that work now with your brothers?

Oh, well, they’re certainly not allowed to listen to, well, it’s funny because they are all in extremely successful, established careers working for businesses. And they probably recognise to some extent that their, you know, silly Black Sheep sister, at a point, and that these things really matter, right? I mean, if you’re in a leadership position, it’s no longer about content. It’s no longer about subject matter expertise, all of a sudden, it becomes about context, it becomes about do you have the ability to inspire and lead a team of people, so they stay engaged, and they really thrive at work. And ironically, two out of those, in fact, three out of those are now in leadership positions. So I think, you know, they’re all probably in their own ways, going through this really interesting process, where they’re realising what was once important about what I brought to the job is no longer important, because there’s a reason why I’ve stepped up. And my team demands different things for me.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah. So I think they can listen to this episode, and then send you the cheque to thank you for your time and energy and coaching would be great.

Chloe Oestreich  

That’d be fabulous.

Murray Guest  

You mentioned context. And I see this in the leaders I work with, and I think it’s a really good point, I think, in the busyness to do stuff, the busyness to deliver on the strategic plan, to do the work, that that providing the context and the why often gets missed. How do you help leaders start to do that, and to actually slow down and bring that context in their communication?

So great question. And it comes back again to the fact that leaders need to be able to perform and communicate at different altitudes right, we need to be able to communicate and perform at 50,000 feet at 5000 feet and at 500 feet. And that’s a muscle that we build to be able to step into a situation and recognise really quickly, what’s required from me here, what level of strategic thinking is required and what level of detail is required in that moment. I would also argue that, and this is so simple, but I genuinely don’t think that people do it enough is to be really deliberate with their intention when they walk into a meeting. And I’m not talking about a surface level intention, which is, you know, to update staff or to pass on information or to get budget approval or to get sign off. But what’s the actual emotional connection to your intention? Are you here to inspire, to excite, to motivate, to challenge, all of the above? Right, that’s your job, it’s your job to be really clear on that intention. And what what does value look like? What do you want people to walk out with? So I would hope that you know, the people who are listening to this, if there’s one thing that they’re going to take away from our conversation today is how deliberate and connected are you towards your underlying intention day in day out? What do you want people to really walk out with?

Murray Guest  

So if I’m showing up for an online meeting, tomorrow, Team, zoom, whatever it might be, and I want to bring the intention the best I can to that meeting, to achieve the outcomes I’m bringing to that. What’s your tips to help someone do that, to prepare for that, to get in that alignment? Because that’s the word that’s popped into my mind the alignment between the words and the energy.

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah, so let’s dig into this a little bit deeper. So when you say the outcomes, what are the outcomes?

Murray Guest  

Yeah, so I’m, let’s say theorising here, the outcome is that I want to show up for this meeting with my internal stakeholders and get them on board. And I guess someone offered the next steps in a project. And so if I’m doing that, what’s on my mind is then how do I make sure that how I show up emotionally, physically, energetically is aligned to those outcomes? 

Chloe Oestreich  

Well, it’s a really good question. I think the way I would approach it is, when you look at that outcome, what’s the, and it goes back again to what’s the impression you want to have on your audience, on the people? And what do you need to do? What do you need to tune into to be able to do that? Now I personally like to pick a verb. I like to pick a doing word because it’s something that you can do, right? Is it to inspire? Is it to excite? Is it to motivate? And I would argue and say, most people know how to tap into that. If I asked you and said, Murray, do you know what it looks like for Murray to motivate? You will know how to do that. Yeah, but if you don’t, then don’t pick it. But right, so you will have a really good idea of what that looks like, well, motivating, looks like I’m going to be, you know, asking lots of questions I’m going to use, you know, my body language or my gestures, or I’m going to use my voice in a way, right? It doesn’t need to be as prescriptive as that because you’re actually you’ve connected to it, you know what motivating looks like. So that’s how I would approach it. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. Gotcha. Gotcha. And I like that connection to the verb, because then in the doing, the behaving, you know, I think people can connect with that more than some sort of theoretical, you know, I’m, I’m being something like I’m being I guess the words pop in my head is curious. So if I’m being curious, that’s nice. But what am I actually doing with that, how’s it showing up?

Chloe Oestreich  

That’s right, that’s right. And this comes up quite often. So when when I ask people, What’s your intention? It’s often this very long winded, convoluted, well, I want to be able to get sign off and I want to be able to convey a level of trust. And it’s like, okay, how do you do that? So how do you do that? Now, if someone has the answer to that brilliant, that intention works for you. But more often than not people feel a little bit stuck. And they go, Yeah, that’s a good question. I don’t know. I just thought that, you know, that might work. Well, if you can’t connect to it. And if you don’t know how to actively do it, then I would strongly encourage you to pick something that you can connect to, that you can tap into.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah. So so important. For you, doing the work online and the executives you work with that are doing so much online, I feel like there’s some for me, what I’ve experienced Chloe is some simple things that people could just get a little bit better would make a big difference for that influencing online, for example, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but I’ve seen this in so many sessions where unfortunately, people turning up, and there’s no light in front of them, and you can’t see their face. And then they’re saying, well, people in the team aren’t listening to me, it’s like, well, they can’t even see you. Like, I feel like there’s some simple things, we’re spending so much time online, in these in meetings or one on ones, just get these little things right, like that will make a big difference.

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah, there are so, there are so many simple strategies that we can use, I mean, we can talk about the things that are really easy to implement, and then we can go into that into a layer of depth. So as you rightly suggested, you know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t take much effort. But if you can just be mindful that you don’t have the washing in the background. Or that you’re sitting in your pyjama pants, I mean, by all means I’m sitting, I’m not sitting in my pyjamas, but I’m wearing my Ugg boots because it’s awfully cold. But you know, all of these things, they matter. And they actually also have an impact in how you show up and the energy that you bring into the room. So lighting is a really big part. The other part as well is if we can train ourselves to actually look into the camera and not get caught up by our own self image, the video in front of us, which a lot of people are doing, but you know, practice staring into the black empty hole that is your camera, because we know that eye contact is how we connect with people. And that’s what we do in real life. And that’s what we should be doing in a zoom call as well. A really simple strategy you can use is to actually frame up front. And you can do this with a lot of humour, that you are competing against so many different things, the notifications that are being set off in the calendar, the email inbox that’s dinging every three seconds. So you can actually set it up and ask people and say, hey, you know what, folks, we’ve got 20 minutes, I’d love you to shut down all notifications. And if you can put your phone on aeroplane mode, and then wait and sit and see if people do that, and they will do it. Right. So now you’ve just removed lots of distractions, that if they pop up, people are no longer going to listen to you, that email that has just popped up, unfortunately, is more important than you in that moment. So that’s the other piece that comes to my mind is that I think in a virtual setting, we need to it’s a continuous interaction. We actually can’t present for long periods of times anymore. We need to continuously check in with people and ask insightful questions. And I get that a lot. And people say, Oh but you know, I’m not getting the reaction that I want, people just give me this, you know that everyone’s on mute. And then they just, at times, give me a head nod. And if I say, Are there any questions then no one’s responding to my questions? Well, you know what? I would challenge that. And I would say, how much of that is contributed to the fact that perhaps you might not be comfortable with moments of pauses and silence?

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. And my build on that, if I may, is, make it easy for people to contribute. And for example, in a lot of my sessions, and I’ve suggested this to leaders I’ve worked with is a lot of people do find it hard to speak up. Unmute. So let’s say share your thoughts in the chat. And then let’s start to explore some of those in the in the chat conversation. And doing that. Interestingly, though, how quickly I jumped in with that pause. And you’re right, because generally, as humans, we have a bit of a challenge with silence, don’t we? 

Chloe Oestreich  

Well, I don’t. No, but you’re right. I mean, we live in an incredibly busy, distracted world. And yes, I mean, people do struggle with a moment of silence. But I think if you’ve identified this to be a challenge for yourself, then I encourage you to practice it with the people who you feel most comfortable with. Tonight, tonight at dinner with your partner. Let’s see, if you can revel in a moment of pause. And what might arise as a result of that, of actually fully – my favourite topic – fully offering up sacred listening, not feeling like you need to respond because somebody is just, you know, shared something, but actually sitting with it, and practising pauses and silence and, you know, magic will unfold. I have no doubt.

Murray Guest  

Well I love that challenge and I invite listeners to share online and tag Chloe and myself how you’ve gone with some really sacred, deep listening to your partner, to your closest friends, family, and how you went with that, because it does make such a big difference. And I there’s something you said Chloe that that links to this. And that is that when you really show that you value and appreciate the other person, turn off the notifications, be fully present. It just shifts that whole conversation, doesn’t it?

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah, totally, totally. On the sacred listening piece, I don’t know if we’ve got time for that. But listening is something I get really, really passionate about. Genuinely, because I think it’s one of the most undervalued skills. And also because I genuinely believe it is the the most extraordinary gift you can actually offer up to another person. There are actually four types in which we listen. And it’s factual listening, download listening, empathetic listening, and sacred listening. So it might be useful for people to have a think about when do I do what? And how can I find greater flexibility to go from one end to another? And, you know, do you want me to go through them? Just very quickly?

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah, I would love to hear because they’re a little bit different to my understanding. And so please, yes.

Chloe Oestreich  

So, and I will preface it by saying that neither are better or worse. And this isn’t about, you know, deciphering what’s good and what’s bad. And, and the reality is, we use all forms of listening throughout the day. Yeah. So they all have their advantages. So factual and download listening, as you can imagine, very low level of engagement. When we do factual and download listening, we often do it as the name suggests, when we listen for facts, when we listen for data, when we listen to the radio, when we listen to the news, right. And all of us did a lot of factual listening at the start of the pandemic, we listened out for numbers, we then move into a far more engaged phase, which is empathetic listening, and sacred listening. And empathetic listening has lots of advantages, as people can probably imagine, but it also has its repercussions. And the repercussions are that quite often when people do empathetic listening, they make it about themselves. So I’ve got lots of people in my network, including my mother, who will kill me for this, but my mother is a total empathetic listener. And you know, what she does is when I tell the story, she’ll go, that’s exactly what happened to me, now last week, when I went, and I go, how on earth did you just manage to hijack the conversation and make this about you? I mean, it’s just extraordinary. And then of course, lucky last, which I think it actually requires the highest form of intelligence is sacred listening. And when we offer up sacred listening, there is no judgement, there is no chatter, there is no evaluation, there is no second guessing there is just pure Being, which is why it’s so incredibly hard, because it requires a heightened level of self awareness of that individual to recognise their own bias and baggage and values and beliefs that they might be bringing into the conversation.

Murray Guest  

I love how you framed up those four types of listening with that we do all four during the day. And the self leadership it takes to think what’s the level of listening I need to bring to this conversation right now? And being clear on that. Yeah.

Chloe Oestreich  

That’s right. I mean, sacred listening requires extraordinary amounts of energy. Right. And you would know, we’re both coaches, this is what is required for us to tap into with our clients. But if I call up the bank, and if I am sitting at customer service, you know, I will probably preserve some of my energy, and I will tune into download or factual listening. Otherwise, you know, I’ll run out of steam pretty quickly.

Murray Guest  

So I feel like there’s something here, which is a theme through what you do with the executives you work with. And I, and what I feel the theme that’s coming out for me clearly is knowing your audience, in in the other person, for lack of better word that you are talking with, is super, super important. So going back to the listening types, or providing that context or the level of information as you talk through, I feel like that’s such a key theme that as as to be an effective leader really knowing that audience and what you’re talking about.

Chloe Oestreich  

Totally, and I think first and foremost, know thyself very well.

Murray Guest  

You have a saying which I love leadership starts with self leadership. So can we unpack that a little bit? Tell me a bit more about that?

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah, look at I get so passionate about this because I feel there are too many individuals in leadership positions who have the privilege, and it is a privilege to lead others but know very little about how to lead themselves. Yeah. And this is where it starts, right? It’s, it’s really understanding how your own biases and meaning making potentially getting in the way of you being able to view multiple perspectives. Again, I mean, as a leader, that’s your job is to have the ability to step away from your own influences and perceptions, really, and to be able to look at things objectively and then, you know, make a decision based on that. And that requires, again, a heightened level of self awareness, and really understanding what are some of the behaviours or ways of thinking or showing up that are an integral part of my personality but perhaps they’re no longer serving me? Right? And how do I address those. And that’s what self leadership is. Self leadership is, I like to talk about the different stages, right, we go from growing up to waking up to showing up to well, actually cleaning up to showing up and this goes back to Ken Wilber’s integral theory, which is extraordinary. And if people want to look into that further they can. And really what this goes, what this comes back to is you journey through these different stages, and you actually decipher how you create meaning how you currently perceive reality. And it’s by recognising that there are many different ways of how you and I both perceive reality, right, you are only really viewing things through your own lens. That’s not necessarily the whole truth. So you have to step away from that.

Murray Guest  

From that, so can I ask when you’re working with the executive leader, what’s the journey look like? To build that self leadership awareness?

Chloe Oestreich  

Well, people come to me at different stages of awareness. And really, what I specialise in, what I do with the leaders that I work with is developmental executive coaching. And it is about the development of the individual. So in comparison to leadership coaching, where is very impactful, however, it doesn’t go as deep. I mean, with that with developmental executive coaching, you really dig deep into understanding what are the beliefs? What are your values? And how deeply connected are you towards those? And can you find greater flexibility from that? Because it is bound to challenge you at some stage, because what happens when you’ve got team members who have different beliefs and different values? Like, are you all of a sudden going to dismiss their opinions? You can’t, you have to have the ability to look at this objectively. So it depends on where people are at. I mean, most, not most, lots of individuals come to me, and they’ve got a very good level of awareness. But as you can imagine, we go down to a layer where people start to really question you know, in many ways, not who am I? But what am I?

Murray Guest  

And I was going to say jumping in there, because I’m so excited about this is the ‘why am I’ like, where did that come from? Because as you were talking at the start of our chat around being one of four, I’m one of four children as well, second youngest. And what I’ve loved is my journey and understanding around and I’m still on it, let’s be honest, about how I show up now being shaped from being one of four children when I was younger.

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah, I mean, that I want to be very careful because there’s a big difference between psychological work and therapy, which I place tremendous value on and coaching work. Also in coaching, where we don’t explore so much the why, but we explore the what sits behind it, right? So of course in psychology, we often ask why questions, and we go back to childhood, and we go back to all of these pieces. In coaching, we go to okay, what sits behind it, and how do we do it differently? And where’s the appetite to doing it differently? But one thing is for sure, and you raised a really good point. And I think, you know, this takes a while for people to let that sink in. And if we all truly understood that I would argue and say that we probably wouldn’t have any wars. But you know, the beliefs and the values that we clutch on to, the very black and white thinking of I am this I am not this, you actually have very little say in this, your parents decided that between the age of zero and seven. Yeah. Right. So it’s just ridiculous really how grown adults are so passionate about these, you know, these belief systems, when in actual fact had actually very little to do with you, your entire construct your entire personality is fully formed by the age of seven. So the work that we do, and the excitement that you get from being in your 30s, and your 40s, and in your 50s, and to actually get to question it and go, I don’t think I want, I want to distance myself from that. Yeah. And what does it look like for me to do this and what freedom arises as a result of that? I mean, it’s extraordinary work, right? Because all of a sudden, this world opens up. And you’ve got far more ability to, to accept to actually accept that people come from different stages of lives, and they’ve got different opinions, and you no longer feel so tightly held by what you believe to be true.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Wow. And the letting go of a belief that potentially, what I’m hearing has been hindering you as an Executive leader. And I just I put myself, I think, in this moment into one of your clients, and that sort of weight coming off the shoulders, that that realisation or those beliefs aren’t me, that, and I’m going to, to, I guess, for lack a better phrase, correct me please here, not like, let that control me or rule me anymore. Like, I’m going to create a new belief system that really supports who I am.

Chloe Oestreich  

That’s exactly right. It’s not I mean, we’re working with, you know, we’re working with the ego, the ego is always with us, of course, the ego is there to protect us and to keep us safe. And it’s not about poo-pooing the ego. The ego has gotten us to where we are today. Yeah. However, it is a construct. Right? It is, it’s a constructed personality, which has been perfectly crafted over the last X amount of years. And you get to question it, you get to actually question it, and not necessarily go, you know, you don’t need to even throw it away. But it’s to gain distance from it. And the luxury that you get from actually being able to step away from it and go, Wow, that self limiting belief that I’ve had my entire life is, is a mere thought. Yeah. It’s a mere thought, and how is it serving me? And if it’s not serving me, how do I gain greater distance away from that? Right? And so yeah.

Murray Guest  

What I’m wondering is, who are the executives that you love to work with?

Chloe Oestreich  

Individuals who are prepared to run towards the fire, so to speak, because this is deeply confronting, it is confronting work, right? Everything you you once knew, you will start to question. And I had a I had a client yesterday, who actually, I felt it really landed with him. And he looked me in the eyes, and he said, So what am I then? And I said, What a brilliant question. What an extraordinary question. Sit with it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Now, this may take us somewhere, I’m mindful it’s a loaded question potentially Chloe. When an executive gets to that point, and they’ve had that self realisation, how do they communicate that to their team?

Chloe Oestreich  

I don’t know if it’s necessary that they communicate that to their team, I think it’s necessary to demonstrate that through the actions, the choices that they’re making. So all of a sudden, this person will show up very differently at work, and they will probably have greater capacity to hold and view multiple opinions and perspectives without shutting people down. They will most likely have greater understanding and compassion. So it’s through the doing, it’s through the actions that people are stepping into, as opposed to Hey, I’ve had this really great awakening and by the way, you know nothing will ever be the same. I mean, you may wish to share that I, I probably don’t think that people will as that they keep that to themselves. And then they go, Okay, with this newfound insight that I’ve had, how am I going to demonstrate this level of maturity? That’s really what it is, right? This is actually, you know, these are the definitions of, of the levels of intelligence and maturity, and one of them is to recognise that we all perceive reality through our own own constructed lenses. And having the ability to step away from that is what makes you more mature as a leader.

Murray Guest  

I love your connection to the doing, as you talked to before about your intention, and what am I doing? What’s that verb, and now, let’s be honest, as a leader, you could say all the things you’d like to say about your journey, but unless you’re doing something with it, then you know, there’s no transformation, there’s nothing really changing if you don’t do that. So. So on the reverse, who do you not like to work with?

Chloe Oestreich  

That’s great. I need to think about that. A, because I haven’t worked with anyone who I don’t like for a very long time, I am in a very privileged situation where I go through a rigorous screening process because I want, you know, my time is, is, is finite, and so is the other person’s time. So who do I not like working with, people who, who aren’t open to, to trying new things, people who are closed minded and set in their ways, who believe that the world consists of black and white. And lots of people are like that, you know, and again, like, they wear it as a badge of honour. It’s like, I’m a very black and white person. I’m like, What’s good about that?

Murray Guest  

Yeah.

Chloe Oestreich  

The world is a deeply complex place. I mean, there’s so much grey, so much complexity. So I feel challenged by people who don’t want to be challenged, I feel challenged by people who are closed minded and don’t want to learn and grow. And these individuals should not be in leadership positions.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. And what I hear from you too, is you’re really clear upfront about that’s the person I want to work with, and that’s what I expect for you in our partnership when we work together.

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes.

Murray Guest  

So one other thing that I think we can explore today, and by the way, thanks so much for your depth of knowledge and sharing your energy, it’s been so awesome.

Chloe Oestreich  

Thank you.

Murray Guest  

I know that as people move up in an organisation, they get to higher levels within an organisation, and they want to have bigger impact and bring a bigger presence. So as a senior leader within an organisation, I know that you’ve got some insights around how I can really bring that presence to what I do, and what I say. What would be the tip that you would love to share with listeners today around that, in really bringing that presence.

Chloe Oestreich  

So let’s talk about executive presence. And there are many ways in which we can harness or tap into that, and it’s within all of us. And there is the Inside Out approach. And then there is the Outside In approach, there are many things that you can do to be perceived as confident, competent, and trustworthy. And that goes down to the executive presence that you bring to the table. But then, of course, there’s also the mindset piece, right, which can throw all of these wonderful tools and techniques at someone but if you still have that niggling self doubt, that is taking away from your confidence, then, while those tools and skills and techniques will only take you so far, when we talk about executive presence, there are three main components really. And these are physical, vocal and mental presence and I refer to lots of research that has been done, especially based on a first impression, right when we meet someone for the first time we make up our mind within the first three seconds of meeting somebody. And then the research, the studies that have been done on this they talked about the importance of how someone looks, dresses, shakes your hand and carries themselves. We’ve gone a little bit further since then, and you can now put it into those three pieces, which is the physical, the vocal and the mental presence. Now underneath those sit a number of subcategories that make up this bigger picture. And so when we talk about confidence, when we talk about competency and trust, we do that through these three components. So it’s being conscious of nonverbal communication, you know, 90% of our communication is nonverbal. It’s through the use of our body language, our gestures, it’s through being mindful and, and having an intention and listening. It’s the volume, the pitch, the pace, the tonality. There are so many components to that. But that’s, that’s what makes up executive presence. And I suppose my, my offer would be if people wanted to have greater executive presence, it’s actually digging a little bit deeper into well, what is it that I’m currently doing, that’s taking away from my executive presence? Is it due to the way that I stand, due to the way that I communicate, due to the lack of eye contact that I’m making with people? What is sending signals to my audience that I am doubting myself? And so there are some lots of like, really small, quick changes that you can implement in just gaining greater credibility if you work on those?

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. I love that. It’s like, what am I doing as an executive or a leader, as a human, as a human, that is taking away from my message, which is, you know, making it murky. It’s getting in the way of it landing? 

Chloe Oestreich  

Yeah absolutely. And I can point out a few. I mean, the most common ones, are you shared with me that you work with a lot of women and that part of your audience are lots of females. So something that women may wish to look out for are the upward inflection. Right? So if you have a higher pitched voice, and if you speak with an upward inflection, which is when we go up at the end of a sentence, yes. Yep. You are losing immediate credibility due to the fact that in that moment, you’re actually asking a question, as opposed to making a statement. Now, the upward inflection is an integral part of the Australian culture. So it’s really, really difficult however it’s not impossible. So that’s something that you can do immediately as you are speaking, here’s a tip. As you are speaking, you may wish to visualise a big fat full stop at the end of the sentence, right? Because what do we do naturally, when there’s a full stop? We go down, we don’t go up. We go down.

Murray Guest  

So simple, but I love the impact that makes huge, huge. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. This has been wonderful, Chloe. 

Chloe Oestreich  

Oh, my pleasure. 

Murray Guest  

Tell me, what does the rest of 2022 look like for you?

Chloe Oestreich  

Well, I’m very excited to share that I will finally be seeing my family for the first time in three years.

Murray Guest  

So wonderful. Yeah, it’s been so tough, to see your family members. So you’re heading back over?

Chloe Oestreich  

Yes, I’m heading to Europe at the end of July. And my brother who lives in New York is currently at home. And it’s going to be wild, Murray, you know, I’m a very different person to who I was three years ago, and so is my family. So it’s going to be almost like, you know, dating one another because we are meeting one another for the very first time. And I think that’s really, really important actually. Another thing that people hopefully get out of our talk today, you know, we’re doing all of this, I hope, people are doing all of this wonderful work on themselves. Well, so does your family most likely. So give them the benefit of doubt next time you see them and recognise that they’re a different person to who they were yesterday, because you know what, they’ve had 24 more hours on this planet, right. So how can we approach these conversations with greater curiosity? I think it’s the people that we love most that sadly, it’s where our curiosity wanes off pretty quickly we go I already know that. I know mom, I know dad. I know my sister. Well actually, do you? Can we actually step into a family dinner and go, Okay, I’m putting away all of my biases because that person has gone through a lot in the last week or two weeks, in my case three years and I’m about to meet them for the very first time in a different way.

Murray Guest  

And I think what we explored today around that listening, that curiosity, showing up with intention, if people can bring that for those people they love, that they’re closest to in life, transformation on those relationships. Huge. Yeah, yeah. So I’m just thinking timing. So not Octoberfest no, it’s going to be there before then.

Chloe Oestreich  

I’m going to be there before that. And also, even though I am from the Bavaria, I’m not from Munich. So I’m actually from a small town outside of Frankfurt, which sits on the border between Bavaria and another state. But yeah, I’m going to be there for the month of August. So lovely, European summer, yes, and catching up with with family, but also some of my best friends. And then I return in September, and I am genuinely really looking forward to the work that I’m currently doing. I’m working with some really amazing companies and individuals and I feel, I genuinely feel there’s a real shift, there’s a real shift in people wanting to be courageous and wanting to really do the work on themselves. And I don’t know whether that’s COVID, or I don’t know whether we are being more open with our health, or we’re being open with, you know, it’s okay to be vulnerable and authentic. But it’s exciting. It’s really exciting to be in the coaching space in 2022.

Murray Guest  

I agree with you, I, I feel like there’s, and maybe we’re just attracting the people we want to work with. But I feel like there has been a good shift in people wanting to do the deep work, that self reflection, and invest in themselves, and leaders wanting to invest in their teams. So I’m really loving that. Now, I want to ask you a personal question. When you spend that time overseas, will you do any work? Or are you that sort of person that’s like, I’m going to switch off for that whole time?

Chloe Oestreich  

I’m going to completely switch off.

Murray Guest  

Oh I have trouble with that Chloe.

Chloe Oestreich  

No, I am, you know, I and I’m not saying the word black and white. But I am very absolute. I am very absolute when it comes to that. My my time is so precious with with my family. I live on the other side of the world after all. And you know, I work really hard when I work. But then when I have a break, I really really take a break. And I have no trouble taking that break either. It’s funny, Murray, you would, this might be a lovely challenge you may want to take on for your next year. I’ve just returned from the 10 day vipassana silent retreat. Have you ever heard of this?

Murray Guest  

Yeah, a friend of mine, I’m happy to share in the Blue Mountains, West of Sydney. 

Chloe Oestreich  

Exactly where I went. 

Murray Guest  

He facilitates these. And he said Murray you should come along. And how did you go?

Chloe Oestreich  

I loved it. Yeah, I mean, don’t get me wrong. It was an extraordinary challenge. There’s nothing, for the listeners who don’t know, for 10 days, there is no stimulation whatsoever. There’s no reading, no writing, no exercise, no talking, no eye contact, you are meditating for 10 hours per day for 10 days. So is it the hardest thing I’ve ever done? Hell yeah. But is it also the most profound and meaningful 10 days I’ve had? Yes. 100%. So I loved it. And I also hated it. But I loved it more than I hated it. I think hate is a strong word. It was challenging. It’s really hard. But it was an extraordinary experience. And one that I actually recommend everyone does.

Murray Guest  

Well, I appreciate your challenge. 

Chloe Oestreich  

Are you accepting? 

Murray Guest  

I do, I accept your challenge. It’s funny as my own dialogue in my head right now, which we won’t unpack as to the whole reasons why I would and wouldn’t, but thank you. I commit to closing the loop. And experiencing a vipassana retreat by 12 months from now. There you go, by the end of June next year. 

Chloe Oestreich  

I love that Murray, I think we should do another episode about our experiences. 

Murray Guest  

Great idea. Let’s do that. Okay. So thank you so much. It’s been wonderful to connect and to talk to someone so passionate about what they do and honestly someone that was so generous with their knowledge and sharing those tips so much that people can take from this conversation. Really, really appreciate it. First, if anyone wants to find you online, where’s the best place to connect with you?

Chloe Oestreich  

People can find me on LinkedIn. First Name, Last Name, Chloe Oestreich, people can also jump on my website. And actually on that I forgot to mention this, because I’m so conscious that most of your listeners would be listening to this while they are doing school pickup, or they’re on the run, or they’re walking. And we’ve shared so much here today that people might not have had a pen and paper in hand. So I’ve actually put together a free video training which people can access. And so if you jump on to www.coconsultancy.com.au/mg, so you can jump on that. And then you can access this free video training around executive presence. And you can find me through there or you can jump on my website, which is www.coconsultancy.com.au. Or just google me I’ll come up my my last name is so tricky, I doubt you are going to find two Chloe Oestreich’s.

Murray Guest  

Well, thank you so much for your generosity of that video training. That is wonderful. And we’ll definitely have that in the show notes, as well links to your website and LinkedIn. And you are unique. So thank you so much for your time. To wrap us up, Chloe, I ask everyone this question, what is your definition of inspired energy?

Chloe Oestreich  

I love that question. And I had to think about it when you asked me at the start of the podcast, but I think I’ve got a different definition now. Well, I’ve been very inspired by our conversation today. And I think you very much represent inspired energy. I think inspired energy to me is someone who is inspired by what it is that they are doing, representing, tapping into, and that is the energy that is resulting from that that they are bringing into the world or into the moment or into the encounter.

Murray Guest  

It is such a beautiful way to finish our chat. Thank you so much. I honestly really appreciate that. I get energised from these conversations because I get to speak to people like you and in all honesty, again, I will repeat what I said it has been so wonderful to connect with you, to learn from you and to spend this time together. So thank you so much. Really appreciate that. All the best for your trip coming up. That’s so exciting for you and I hope you have a wonderful, safe, relaxing trip. So thank you. 

Chloe Oestreich  

Thanks, Murray. Thanks for having me.