Episode 104 – Mykel Dixon | Author of ‘Everyday Creative’

In this episode I speak with Mykel Dixon, a speaker, facilitator, author and musician, who brings a unique perspective to how we view leadership and the relationship to our work.

Listen in your favourite app

Transcript

Murray Guest  

Mykel, welcome to the podcast. Great to see you on the screen but of course, we’ve never met face to face because of this COVID world we live in. Where are you at the moment, from a COVID restrictions point of view, how are you?

Mykel Dixon  

I’m well, good to see you Murray, virtually, of course. I am in my custom built studio which is situated in my garage. And I spend almost all day every day in this wonderful dark room with its moody neon lighting, because yes, the work that we now do is is 90% virtual, 100% for me being a Victorian.

Murray Guest  

I need to just paint a picture here that you have one of the best backgrounds I think I’ve seen, we’ve got this beautiful mood lighting and a little bit of light in the background and some plants, and this, this LED lighting happening.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah, well, if you think back to the 80s and 90s you had your power suit. Remember that? You want to be, you want to present well when you’re going into a meeting or a sale or speaking on a stage or whatever. We don’t like to indulge too much in it but we’re a very visual species, a lot of animals are really but but we certainly are as humans. So in this zoom world we’re living in teams and virtual, I like to think that your backdrop or the room is your power suit, and not in the sense of, of designing something that makes you look good, but designing something that’s a natural expression of who you are so that you feel really comfortable every time you’re online, where you feel like you’re operating in your favorite pair of slacks or it’s it’s your leather jacket, you know what I mean?

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah, so and just to paint the picture for our listeners, I’m in the corner of my bedroom with a white background, I look like I’m stuck in the void in the matrix with nothing behind me so it’s very contrasting to this. So I don’t know what that says about me at the moment.

Mykel Dixon  

It’s great. Yeah, I mean I thought I thought about this recently, I’m a musician by trade, so I studied jazz many years ago and I still use that a lot in the work that I do now, coming from the arts, entertainment sector how can business, how can leadership cultures learn from that. But just, I was reflecting on this yesterday I’ve always had some kind of room, some kind of geographical location in a house I was living in even as a kid, but certainly when I flew the coop, that would that would hold and and home my expressions my experimentation my discovery, just a sacred space of self indulgence. A few keyboards around, you know, some records and mood lighting, and it’s just always been really important to me. I think I’ve done it by default, but I remembered again yesterday, ah, actually this is really something I should bring even more consciousness to and bring more intention to making this space even more feel like I’m sliding into the womb. Is that the right thing to say?

Murray Guest  

I think that the link back to the power suit of you being comfortable in your surroundings and authentically showing up as you. And like you, over the last nearly two years so many online sessions with people. I tell you what, I haven’t said this in any of the podcasts, I don’t like virtual backgrounds. I feel like that the edging of the of the human body in the virtual background just looks a bit crap, and just generally doesn’t work. 

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah it’s a bit cheap and nasty. We know that in five years time virtual backgrounds will look incredible, but the tech is not there yet. And on the one hand is pretty, it’s pretty extraordinary. And on the other it still just doesn’t quite cut it.

Murray Guest  

They’re like ringtones. Remember when ringtones was the thing where’d you sit there and look at what’s the best ringtone or you create a ringtone or you buy a ringtone. And now everyone just has the standard ringtone. Maybe virtual backgrounds are like that annoying frog. That will just disappear. Remember that.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah I do. Yeah, yeah, Gangnam Style. All of those, you know, it’s fascinating even thinking about that, we have them as throwaway but the people that write those songs that the Crazy Frog and Gangnam Style. They spent a year on that. The marketing and the this and the that and then they cashed out big time and laughing all the way to the bank. What have you been listening to lately? Funnily enough, in the work that I do with large organizations particularly larger projects and programs. There’s one. We might go through a series of master classes or a bunch of events and then and then we arrive at this place where we start maybe the first session I call The Art of You. The second is The Sound of Us, how we can work more effectively together. The last predominantly ends with something I call The Shape of Now, so how can we take all this wonderful insight, and start to reshape the everyday experience of our life and our work in this moment. And so one thing I get them to commit to is 50 days. A 50 day project where they do something that they can do in less than five minutes a day, but claws back a bit of their self expression or reconnects them to the person they used to be or the person they hope to become. And, and I always go on this journey with them because I’ve done this ritual for many years it’s served me well. And the one that I started just yesterday, is to listen to an album from start to finish, with no disruptions, like we used to do. Before streaming and you just hear one song and it’s shortened. And I got one of the participants in this program to offer up what would be the first album I listen to and he said Mike Oldfield – Tubular Bells. So I listened to that. Remember that 1973 I think it was, and what a journey that was. It’s quite an odyssey that album.

Murray Guest  

Well, interestingly, if we were in my office, which I’ve just moved out of there today, the background in my office, I have 40 album covers that I’ve deemed are all killer no filler. It can’t be a best of or a live album, but it’s that album you can put on and listen to from start to finish. And some of them have some emotional connection as music does of course. But when I look at it, and that’s my background, and it’s those albums where you went right. That’s what an album was about not as you’re saying, you download one song or one song stream on song, and the effort, the band’s go to around the order of the songs and the transition and things like that so I think we might have some different perceptions of what should be on the wall and that’s the beauty of art.

Mykel Dixon  

Well, I think it’s only fair to give you the opportunity to nominate the album I listen to today, Murray.

Murray Guest  

Okay so, I, I would actually like to suggest you listen to and this might throw some of my listeners who know that I used to have a long, well my wife says it was a mullet, but let’s just say as long hair. For many years, and the heavier taste in music that I do like, but I will suggest Frankie Goes to Hollywood – Welcome to the Pleasure Dome. 

Mykel Dixon  

Oh here we go.

Murray Guest  

It’s a very good double vinyl. 

Mykel Dixon  

Love it. 

Murray Guest  

So, you and I both work with organizations around culture and leadership, and you’ve got me thinking around the jazz of culture.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah, absolutely. As we all should be thinking about the jazz of culture. It’s a good meaty topic to talk about. I remember in the in the beginnings my father was a CEO in government when he was quite young, he got there about 38 I think, and then maybe 42/43, he left that and started a partnership brokerage, practicing you know around partnering, cross sector partnering. And this was around the time that I was studying and we used to have these chats and when we catch up and I talked to him about the relationships with jazz musicians, how you’d improvise live, and he would say, God, Mike, this is exactly what we’re trying to do in a partnering situation or in in a leadership context or when we’re delivering. There are so many parallels and we talked for probably 20 years around, God we really need to put something together, and then through the course of that I’ve seen at various points I’m sure we all have where people, someone will talk about it. You know the jazz of leadership, the jazz of culture, which is really good, but there is so much that we can take from, from the way that musicians improvise and come together and repurpose that in in business in the world of work.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and the reason I’m thinking about the jazz, because I don’t have anywhere near the knowledge that you have around jazz but from my limited understanding as that creativity that comes from jazz music and that support and creating space for other musicians to to shine. And to do that versus I don’t know, a very structured, rhythmic process. Jazz is more playful.

Mykel Dixon  

And emergent. There’s a deep understanding of your own, there’s a deep relationship that’s built between you and your instrument. So you as an individual artist, or let’s say you as a person in a team, you know your instrument. So you’ve got that relationship with the technicality, the proficiency of playing a guitar, but you also have a relationship with music. So you have a relationship with your work, and you have a voice in that, it’s not a one way street like it’s a two way thing, it’s your, the way that you’re aware and you perceive music but then also the way that you create and your voice comes through in that. That’s the same in a, in a, you know work context where you might know your role, the technical things in your role, you’re in IT or you’re a HR director, etc. But then there’s your unique spin on that, which is great so there’s kind of two elements and then you put that in, in a group context and you go okay cool, so we’ve got quite a dynamic thing at play now where we’ve got a lot of different relationships with individuals with music, individuals with their instrument, and now coming together within with individuals and different instruments and individuals expressing different music to create something that is congruent and ultimately serves the song in such a way that, that moves an audience in a particular way so delivers an outcome to a customer or a vendor. So it’s really, there’s a lot of beauty to it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, so one of the challenges I’ve seen is that relationship leaders have with their function their business unit that they lead, and then that shift to it’s actually relationship with the whole organization. And I’m feeling like that, you’re tapping into that when you talk about that, you’ve got that relationship with your technical expertise, your instrument, but you also need to be able to have that, that space connection with everyone else as well, so that they can thrive and that you can connect with them.

Mykel Dixon  

I remember, was it Einstein or someone like that, that said, you know, genius or intelligence is being able to hold two conflicting contexts at the same time. Yes, it’s that, so there’s a lot of what’s going on in jazz or in music. There’s, there’s so many conversations that are happening simultaneously. And there’s, there’s your intent, and you know your voice, you’re wanting to come through you’ve got an idea for taking the song in a particular direction, but then there’s immediate feedback, where the people in the band will hear what you play, and they’ll either alter what they’re playing to provide some contrast or they’ll complement what you’re doing. You might step out, you take a solo so then instruments that may be stereotypically the ones out front, then they may take a backseat and they support the role, the bass player takes a solo, but then you switch back and it’s all happening without, you’re not stopping. “Okay stop guys now you’re going to take a solo now, and then you’re going to…” It’s happening live, real in delivery, like work is happening live, real, in the moment. But there’s so many nuances and there’s this, this is where I think the world of work, and just society writ large should be focusing a lot of its attention, energy and attention right now is nuance, is going beyond just that shallow surface, immediate, this is what it looks like, this is what my experience has been thus far, this is what worked last time. To go deeper into, Hang on a second, because in my training you know I actually went to the Con in Adelaide and studied music there and fascinating to look back on I kind of missed that, I’d love to almost study again. But, um, and I missed this, you know, wouldn’t it be great if, as we rebuild just as a side to that, rebuild our world again post COVID that we, we do see an explosion of a renaissance where universities and and communities where there’s salons and there’s get togethers and we have philosophical discussions, etc, etc. But I remember, there’s so much training around how you listen, and there’s, there’s how we listen and then there’s how we listen and you can hear, you can develop such, it’s hard to articulate in words, but you can you can hear things differently, the tonality of notes rhythm, time, the relationship between all of those things simultaneously, when you really listen to things. And certainly when you get into, into production of albums and things like that you talk to different producers, the way that they can hear things in their putting, you know, changing the frequencies of particular things to make it sound so rich and warm that we, if you just have it on the background you’re driving the car on the way to pick up the kids. You’re not really in it. But if you, if you bring an active listening to music, it takes the, the whole experience takes on a whole new world and it does feel like it’s communicating directly with you and I think that is true of our work in the business context if you can bring that active listening, if you can really place yourself and be present to what’s emerging in front of you, you can hear things you’ll notice things that otherwise you might have missed, like driving to pick up the kids with, you know, with Whitney playing in the background.

Murray Guest  

I feel like there’s a, there’s a theme a red thread here around slowing down and being present. So, as you’re saying post COVID Renaissance whatever that may look like, and but then in organizations of really listening, creating that space, or, you know, as a musician, if you, you need to be present, don’t you, to really to riff on that music. How do you help leaders do that. So, you know the I’m too busy for that or I’ve got too much on my plate or I’ve got to deliver on Bloody x y and z. How do you help them shift that?

Mykel Dixon  

I think it’s really important not just to be present but in that presence to connect with something meaningful, and something and meaningful get thrown around all the time, but why I’m such a big proponent of the arts is that there’s a sacredness, there’s something that happens when you go to the theater and you’re watching people on stage or you go to a live gig and it’s not just being around people and having a few beers. There are moments in time that you feel something beyond yourself there’s a connection to something spiritual I would say,. at the risk of sounding woowoo, but it’s, it’s, there’s a presence there, that is beyond the limits of your rational logical 2% brain that’s carrying on, thinking about the shopping list and ra ra ra, the more that we can connect with those moments, the gravitas, the the gift. The mystery of existence, the more that then I think that starts to shape your behavior, the way you see and perceive the world, so that it’s not just being present in the moment it’s then what do you do and how do you connect with things other than your social media feed or other than the deliverables that need to get done by close of business today or other than putting out fires. Stopping, getting present. Now talking to an exec or you’re talking to someone that’s, that’s got a lot on their plate. The last thing they’re thinking, and certainly want to do is, okay, let’s just stop for a moment and listen to an album. Don’t be ridiculous Myk, I mean yeah maybe maybe at Christmas, after I’ve had a few wines. And a lot of the work I’ll do with people is actually priming them, getting them ready, teasing them, tempting them, just just subtly, you know, hitting their soul in a sense, that then we can get to each time that we touch it, that it becomes more familiar and it becomes more, the appetite rises for them where they’re like, yeah, yeah, that that place we got to last, I want to get back there again how do I get there again. Inevitably there is always a conflict with okay great so how do we further this work, listen to an album. Don’t be ridiculous. No, no, but how do we, what’s the ROI. It’s so it’s a real it’s it’s a dance.

Murray Guest  

I was actually biting my own tongue or trying to push some words back into my mouth, because the busyness of what people think they have on the plate is actually taking them away from the essence of what the role of a leader is all about, like what you’re talking about that’s, that’s what they’re there for. That’s what leadership is. It’s the people, it’s being present, it’s listening, it’s, it’s showing up. And when you talk about albums, you talk like there’s that, there’s a twinkle in your eye, about an album versus a track. Is that do you think coming from a respecting of the artist and what they’ve put into it, is that where that comes from for you?

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah, I think I think it is a body of work a lot of the time it’s almost like it’s, I guess that’s, that’s a subjective thing for most people but I would say, I mean we’re such a transient temporary world right now where everything is, if it’s not 30 seconds if I can’t get it delivered by tomorrow, I’m out, I’m done two clicks it was too hard, I want one click. But there’s something about, when someone has invested an amount of time in something you can get takeaway, you can get Uber Eats. But when things open up again, and we can go to a restaurant and you’ve got to get a park and you sit down and when your tables almost ready, would you like to have a drink at the bar in the meantime, they bring you some peanuts, you know, some elegant expensive peanuts and oh you can hear the clinking of glasses and then they seat you, and then you sit down, you’re handed a menu and we might have a glass of champagne to begin. There’s a whole ritual around that. Yeah, that the food tastes better because you’re you’re living in this experience, there’s more context to the experience that you’re having. And it’s a journey. And I think when you think about an album. It’s a journey. There’s context around it and even if you dive deeper into, you know you do learn about where where the band at in their career at that point, what was going on in their private lives, what were the social conditions, what were the political environment, etc. What delivered this work of art or this this message. 

Murray Guest  

It’s like when you’ve read about the relationships and what was going on with Fleetwood Mac when they recorded Rumors, makes Rumors an even better album.

Mykel Dixon  

Absolutely. And again, let’s tie this back to a work context if you were to think about a project, a significant project, digital transformation or some innovation that happens in a business. If we were to think about that as a journey, and the context that that that project sat within. And we came at it with an almost an artistic lens okay what can we create out of this, how can this, we leave a legacy with this so that people use this not as a case study, and write a HBR article on it, but it becomes something that people could look back on and continue to have a relationship with, get value from, want to share with their friends, as, as a work of art.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, where can we look back on it as something we’re proud of versus I’m just glad we got it done. And what’s the emotion that that then generates and the connection between each other, and, and how we, because we are emotional beings and then what’s the emotions that kind of bring to us and the way we approach our work and each other and in that process.

Mykel Dixon  

And that speaks to the challenge of the system so the architecture of the environment that we’re in, which is obviously efficiency, it’s time, it’s cost, it’s all of that stuff. And yet I’m yet to meet a person if after a glass of Pinot, or, you know, a meaningful session, that they don’t say exactly what you said, you know I really, I would love to be proud of this. Yeah, I want to do work that that I can be proud of that, that I can leave a legacy, even if it’s punching out emails, it doesn’t matter like the work itself doesn’t matter, it’s who we are as we’re doing it. And it’s how we feel as a result of the outcomes of our work, but the whole thing, the system that we have to live in, is almost pulling us in the exact opposite direction of that, which is the real challenge.

Murray Guest  

Yeah and I mean, there’s something there isn’t there around how it is so important to get leaders, aware, and on the journey, and supporting this at the top. Otherwise you’re like trying to, and I have worked with companies where it’s like an island of excellence in the company, where they’re like they’re doing something great, I want some of that, and you start to spread like a virus, can I use the analogy, a virus, but, but there is something isn’t about okay let’s actually look at this about what’s going on in the whole organization and let’s make that change and shift that from the top.

Mykel Dixon  

And the courage. I don’t think there’s ever been, or maybe that’s not the right way of saying it. Leadership is courage, you know, standing up for what you believe in, standing up, holding a vision, using your imagination, and right now when it’s, it’s a lot easier to keep doing things the way we’ve always done them. It’s a lot, well it’s easier in one regard it kind of chews you up burns you out you get fat. You might have your money but you’re miserable and then you feel like you’ve wasted 40 years of life. But the courage now for leaders at any level whether they’ve been leading for one week or for 30 years to say, Okay, this is it, this is the moment, we’re at a huge inflection point for humanity, we know, do one Google search, about, well being and, and the state of affairs right now in a work context not even in socially or politically, but then you get the great resignation, which I’m sure many of your guests have been talking about, we know that 41% of world right now seriously considering leaving their jobs in the next three months. That’s not, it’s not just trivial LinkedIn fodder.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, there’s a real reset on what’s important in my life right now, and where my passions and my priorities of my life are versus, you know, a few years ago I want to go up in the levels of the organization and I want to go and lead a multi function area or I want to go and lead a different market in a different country, no actually, my health, my well being and my family is, is the focus right now. And that is consistently coming up. What, what have you noticed around the shift to online in organizations, and the impact that’s having to people. So, this big shift of like what you and I have been talking about that we’ve been doing, but what about internally with everyone having to show up online, in some way.

Mykel Dixon  

Burnt out, fatigued, doesn’t even come close to what they are feeling right now just just chewed up and spat out essentially. And again, I mean we’re on an evolution so it was a pretty radical shift that literally overnight the whole world had to figure out how to do teams and zoom and etc, etc, and so there’s been that learning curve and obviously we would show up at work nine to five or eight to six for most people, and then suddenly that became all day every day sitting on a screen and then it was all let’s turn the camera off, or no cameras on because they’re the…. Yeah. It’s just everyone’s just fried, the brain is fried.

Murray Guest  

Tammy was sharing something with me the other week there’s some research around when you’re looking at your own face so much, it actually impacts your own well being. Yeah, because we’re now looking at us, whereas, you know you normally look at yourself in the mirror, you know, for you it might be 20 times a day, for me 38. But you know you do that, but now it’s like we’re doing it all the time and that impacts how you see yourself and your own, you know, I don’t know, from a mental health point of view your self worth and all those other sort of criticisms coming up.

Mykel Dixon  

Cognitive load, and the constant. Oh, there’s Megan, Oh, there’s Megan, and then that the cumulative effect of that over a day a week, a month, two years. Yeah, it’s having a real impact and don’t forget also the COVID kilos, so it’s not like we’re looking at ourselves in our best perhaps light, you know, we’ve been cooped up a house, you look great, your filter that I have on. It’s all CGI.

Murray Guest  

Any tips you’ve got for people listening, to help them? I’m not saying to make themselves look better on camera…

Mykel Dixon  

Talk to my Photoshop guy.

Murray Guest  

What has worked for you showing up online so much more in these last 18 months?

Mykel Dixon  

It’s all energy for me and and it’s, it’s and by energy I mean intent, a lot of the time. So, yes, you got to step away. Yes, you know there’s there’s great study Microsoft did around people on teams they did the brain scans, and they’ve got all you people that you can look it up online, Microsoft Teams brain scan whatever, you’ll see the people that don’t have breaks throughout a day, the brain starts off in this lovely blue, green, and then it’s yellow, orange and dark red. And that’s after, you know, just a few hours of back to back meetings, whereas people that took 15 minutes between meetings throughout the course of their day stay in like a yellowy greeny blue thing for most of the day so it’s in a practical sense, stepping away, going outside, hugging a tree, getting some sunshine for 15 minutes so I actually recommend to people, whatever, if you got a 60 minute meeting make it 45, and that 15 don’t cram that with more work, get up and move around. Now I don’t do that all the time either. None of us do, sometimes you can’t it’s unavoidable you’re in back to backs. But, but from a, from a, not a practical sense I guess from a, from an energetic sense, being really, if you’re acting like, if we go deep here like if you’re showing up in a way that’s incongruent with who you are that’s exhausting at the best of times, but if you’re having to do it on a screen where you can see yourself and you can’t quite read the other people’s emotions and they’re looking down and they, they turn their camera off. Oh my god, what does that mean are they not engaged, they didn’t like what, all of these things. If you’re stuck in if your brain is stuck in, I need to prove something here, I need to impress them. I need to look like I’ve got my shit together and I don’t want to be seen to be incompetent around Professor are, you’re done by 9:15. So this is in some ways if we put an optimistic lens on this, this could be a catalyst for all of us to not just reconsider what’s purposeful and meaningful in our lives, kids you know family, but to think about well how am I showing up in the world? Am I, I mean it’s hard enough with social media and all that whole game that’s, that’s, that’s fueling our ego and insecurity and self esteem issues, but to have to have a mean if there’s ever a real kind of, you know gloves off conversation with yourself and think, is this sustainable. Am I do I care too much about what they think of me, because that’s going to exhaust me whereas if I can just be who I am as I am. There’s more energy there.

Murray Guest  

Wow, I jumped to the alignment in who you are, that authenticity, that, that, going to, I remember years ago a leader said to me, you know, the most important thing is that when you put your head on the pillow at the end of the night sorry at the start of the night to go to sleep that you’re proud of who you have been during the day, that you’ve been in alignment with who you are, living your values, and not just the words you say but how you show up and interact and that’s what I’m hearing. That’s so true Myk that, that that interaction there that and how you that you can just be you and that as humans we encourage and embrace that of other people. And that creating that psychological safety, that people Oh, I do want to turn up today and I’m not cleanly shaven, but I’m here and I’m present, but that’s how I feel.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah. Well, I’d say, again it comes back to courage, because it’s the courage to be you, all of you as you are. And it’s the courage to create that space for others and I think obviously we live in a culture and particularly in the west where we celebrate and hero, gregarious, outgoing, extroverted, you know ra rara. If that’s not you, but you feel that you’ve got to be that to keep up. If you’re someone that actually your comfortable space, your safe space is taking in the whole meeting and saying three words, three minutes before the end. If that’s your jam, like, be courageous enough to actually be that and you might have to articulate that for people so that they are like, Are you okay you know haven’t said much, but if you’re the outgoing gregarious one, be that obviously be be, you know, conscientious of others and not hogging the airtime, etc, etc. Yeah, I mean for me, I’m quite jovial, I play the fool I’m kind of like the court jester in the room you know so I can get the ear of the king, and I can poke fun at the Emperor and not wearing clothes and things like that. And a lot of that’s intentional. But but a lot of the time I have to be really brave because I will. It works for me is where I find my center, it’s it’s effortless. And so there’ll be times where I’ll have a significant client or there’ll be someone that doesn’t quite know me yet or there’ll be one or more often it’s someone that’s trying to sell me into their senior or their client or their partner, etc, etc, and they’re like, Ah, I love Myk I just am not sure how he’ll be perceived by this straight laced kind of person. And if I surrender my self expression in that moment, you know, obviously you got to read the room. Yeah, but if I, if I, if I act in an incongruent way with who I am I’m exhausted after it. I’m second guessing myself. If I am who I am, yeah 99 times out of 100 I get off the call feeling great, I can put my head on the pillow, knowing that I was, I wasn’t disingenuous in any way, but more often than not, people that that you would think wouldn’t maybe come on the Myk journey are like, Oh God that’s refreshing. Yeah he’s perfect for us, he’s so different to me, but that’s exactly what we need right now, etc, etc.

Murray Guest  

Because there’s that, that BSD in our heads, that bullshit detector that will say, Oh that is that person who they truly are or that’s not, and that inauthenticity is worse than anything else that you know trying to convince someone how you’re going to help them and you’re not being your true self is going to do much more damage than just being you and if you are you and then it doesn’t go ahead, that’s okay. Yeah, because it wasn’t meant to be. Well and this ties back beautifully to the jazz band, where if you’re playing the guitar, you’re playing the bass, I’m playing the keys, someone else’s on the drums.  I would play drums. 

Mykel Dixon  

Perfect so you’re the drummer Murray, don’t you try to play the guitar when I’m playing it. It’s like, we’ve got a guitarist, but geez, we need a drummer, and we don’t need any old drummer we need Muz on the drums, and that it you know that, not just in terms of the the technical component of a team, and each person fulfilling a role, but on a, on a character basis.

Murray Guest  

Have you seen the Metallica documentary, Some Kind of Monster? Because they get into the depth there of when they start telling each other what to do. Don’t tell me how to sing. Yeah, and then I’ll start to tell you how to play the drums.

Mykel Dixon  

I mean well, it’s funny, years ago I had a dear friend of mine, Dr. Sean Richardson, he speaks and consults, he works with all the elite sporting teams, does a lot of AFL stuff like that. We got close doing some programs together and I was in a band at the time and we were trying to you know make it and do all those things and he said just before that came out actually, but then it was very poignant at the time, he said, I’d love to work with you guys, you know, as a band, and we did all that you think that documentary we did that over the process of about two years where we were crying together, we were yelling at each other, we were getting so raw and we would do these rehearsals and in particular ways and it was profound in terms of the relationships that were built, you know, among, among the band members. But what that did, I think for our performance as well that when it came time there’s a couple of significant gigs that I can think of that we we outshone, we were just, you know, one of the support acts. I remember one in particular was an Aria after party, and we were a nobody, and there was all these famous people and the Arias finished and then the club filled up, and we were supposed to be on first but it just so happened that everyone left the Arias, literally, as we were going on stage in this fancy club in Sydney, so we had the best gig, the best time slot. Yeah, and we smashed it. And then that the air conditioner started leaking on the PA right very fancy gives just so bizarre that it happened in this way. And so the sound system blew. Hilariously we’d done all these rehearsals through this process with with our psych friend where we dream up these potential scenarios in the future, and one was, what if the sound system blew and we were mid gig and it was like all these important Record Label types in the room, and it was like huh, we’ve already rehearsed this. And so then they’re standing on the fall back and yelling at the crowd and going one more song and they’re all ahhh while the sound guys are trying to fix it and it was, it just lifted the roof off and then led to a lot of opportunities out the back of that. But the relationships that were built through being that, funnily enough, I was, it was starting to be around the time where I I’d always had, I’ve always kind of been a front man, but I’ve resisted that role. And I’ve, I’ve, it’s come natural to me but I’ve always equated it with arrogance, wants the spotlight, blah blah blah, which this is perfect actually for a leadership conversation. Some of us are really meant to be leaders, and we, some of us can shy away from that’s always the hero’s journey where there’s the that resisting the call, and I think I’ve resisted the call a lot but it wasn’t until we got in doing this work with one another where it’s like no Myk, for us to be a success, you’re the guy on the mic, you’re the guy at the front, you got to be that guy.

Murray Guest  

Well that sounds like you had developed some perceptions and labels of what you thought a front man was or a front person, and you didn’t want to be that, as opposed to what you brought in your own personality and your truth to be a great front person. And I think that’s leadership lesson there is, tell me about this one, that then leadership isn’t about you trying to be the leader that someone else is it’s about you being the leader that you are.

Mykel Dixon  

And leading for the moment. What like what what is required in that moment and not like other people’s interpretation or projections about you in that moment, I mean you think of all the premiers around this country that have had to step into different leadership roles, everyone’s got an opinion on it. Yeah, we’re not them, having to make those decisions, what kind of leader do you want to be, or what what kind of leader does the moment call for, and are you willing to step into that despite the criticisms, you know the nitpicking. It’s very powerful stuff.

Murray Guest  

Oh yeah. Funny story a few weeks back I was running a session for a team, and I thought okay, I’m just going to ask them do you think you know you’re more of an Angus Young, or Malcolm Young type person. And this young guy says, who’s Malcolm Young? And I went what?! What?! I thought, did I not read the audience? Like come on.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah. Well, this is another challenge isn’t that the, the generational divide, and that in the past and purely because of the internet, you can be you can you can live in a pocket of the internet in a two to three year age bracket generally speaking, where there’s 1000s and 1000s of 1000s of people you’ve got all the social connections you need you’ve got, you’re fulfilled your this is your world. But everyone in your workplace has no idea that that world even exists. And the context that you’re in is, he could say yeah but do you know, or are so you mean between like Grimes and blah blah blah and you’re like who? What? Who is that? And so we can’t communicate because we’re all in these little pockets, believing that our pocket everyone should know stuff. Yeah, so I guess underneath that is what are fundamental principles, or what is, this is it actually interesting, I’m doing a bunch of training at the moment with a beautiful woman in the states who is consciousness training and perception and awareness but it’s all, it’s, it’s an initiation process it’s with, you know, Quechua tribe in Peru and I won’t go too deep into that but very very powerful stuff and one thing we spoke about funnily this morning was in indigenous cultures, and the technologies that they that have existed for 10s of 1000s of years, but really the fundamental underlying principles of of consciousness of the universe of evolution is, is the idea of continuity, there’s a consistency where you learn something and then that informs the next, you don’t forget it, and it builds and it builds and it builds, that’s what evolution does that’s what indigenous cultures who have kept certain technologies, rituals, ways of being with one another, initiations, etc etc, that hold the culture together that strong, that strength. Whereas us in the West, we’re like sieves, things go in and then we’ve got holes through us, we don’t retain any information, we don’t retain… how many people, how many of your listeners have done more than 10 leadership programs in their career? Yeah, you know, and I’ve heard this before somewhere. Yeah, we read books we skim them, we go I think I’ve read yeah I think I read that a few years ago, wait is that the one..? We are not building on the knowledge or the wisdom. And so then think about okay, leadership, multi generational people with all these different things, how can we return to or rediscover some underlying fundamental principles that can anchor us and anchor our leadership in a way that it doesn’t matter if they’re based in Singapore, they’re of another gender with a completely different cultural background and lifestyle choices. But there there are certain foundational principles that we agree to and understand and can you know work from that place.

Murray Guest  

For me, this goes right back to your point earlier about going deep, as you said, the training you do at the moment’s going deep, listening going deep, truly, truly listening, being present, and with your learning going deep. I was running a session yesterday with a group of leaders, and this introduced a model around communicating with clarity, and this guy said, Ah, I think I’ve done this before somewhere maybe? That’s a great reminder, you know like, Okay, so let’s let’s lock it in and, and talk about that. It’s interesting the other one I’ve seen a few times, you just reminded me is when you share a bit of content in a session. And some people switch off. Oh I’ve seen this before so I switch off, versus, and I’ve in my best moments I challenge them and with that courage we talk about saying, Well, how can you actually add to the conversation? How can you talk about your experiences, because we don’t just listen to a song once or watch a movie once or whatever it is, so how can you actually continue to be part of this conversation and bring your perspective and not just switch off.

Mykel Dixon  

And what’s different this time, because you are. So the first time that you saw that piece of content, you’re a different person to who you are now, etc etc. Stand in a creek, it’s never the same creek. Yeah it’s really it’s fascinating stuff and even the depth I mean, the, the, we’re living in shallow times. And it is, again, the courage for people to stop and to, to invest in richer, deeper, scarier conversations with themselves, with their loved ones, with strangers, with the work, to stand up and question is this all there is, is there more to this. Can we go further, can we actually be more generous? Is this about wellbeing for all or just profit? You know what, what are we really doing here. And what would it take and just sitting in that question, sitting in the inquiry longer. I remember you know, the great David Bowie, talks about a, there’s a great interview of him and the interviewer asked him, What do you see is the difference between artists and non artists. And David says, I don’t think there is one. You know I don’t buy into this idea, this story that artists are somehow geniuses, there’s the stereotypical narrative that they’re separate to everyone else. I just think they sit in the inquiry longer which affords them what we perceive to be highly original thought. We think that they come up with these amazing things, they’re just not rushing to an outcome, sitting in the tension of what else?

Murray Guest  

There’s a, there’s a link there isn’t there between the first and second albums. How many bands where the first album is just amazing. Then the record label says, Quick, get a second album out and you go a hang on that just didn’t quite hit, the second album.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah, well that’s, and that’s a that’s a leadership program isn’t it. That’s a product that’s, that’s, and it’s one thing for I think everyone again it’s a lesson that we all need to learn and somehow get a get out there into business vernacular, the way that we all relate to this stuff is, you might have done this project before but you haven’t done THIS project before, you might have done a program like this before but you haven’t done THIS one, you might have had a customer that looks and sounds just like this person but it’s not THIS customer. It is unfolding before you now now now now now. So bringing yourself to that, the information, the data that becomes available, the opportunities that exist now will almost always deliver a different outcome, a different result, more value etc etc etc.

Murray Guest  

And that links so well to what I’m doing with a client the moment around growth mindset and being curious, because in essence what you’re saying is, this is new, every time it’s new, you’re new, you’re different, client’s different, situation’s different, leadership program’s different, be curious. Sit in it, and inquire.

Mykel Dixon  

Yeah. And I’d say, even in addition to that, I’m not sure if you’ve come across as a beautiful guy in Melbourne called Ash Buchanan, and he’s developed even a mindset beyond growth, and he calls it ‘benefit mindset’. And essentially, how can we go from, Okay fixed, everything is the way it is, I can’t change, you can’t, to growth, oh possibilities here, what could be available in this moment to why. What do I want to do now with this information and ultimately how is this building, growing, reconnecting, regenerating an interdependent ecosystem that is all life on this planet. So we’re not just learning and staying open so that we can make more money. We’re staying open and growing ourselves so that we can build a beautiful world, that works for all.

Murray Guest  

Myk, Thanks so much. This has been awesome.

Mykel Dixon  

Pleasure, man. Thank you. Well, thanks guys it’s, I wasn’t expecting that.

Murray Guest  

So, just out of clarity for the first 100 odd episodes. No one has brought their own crowd with them, so well done.

Mykel Dixon  

Wow, that’s great. I didn’t really.. I could go on, believe me.

Murray Guest  

Yes, yes you could. Um, so, a couple questions to ask you. What is your definition of inspired energy? And not the one you’ve given me, which is a beautiful one. Can I just say, and I can share that but what, I’ve had inspired energy today, I’ve got more energy, after this conversation than before it because you’ve brought that so tell me what is your definition?

Mykel Dixon  

Truth, truth, beauty. Yeah, inspired energy for me is when is, it’s joyful. And it’s, it’s honest and natural I would say organic maybe is a good way of phrasing it like when I I can’t help but think when we’re when we’re operating from the center of ourselves, as cliche as all these things are like, they get chewed up and spat out by the memes on LinkedIn. But, but when we’re operating like an old growth forest, when everyone is just in service of everyone else. And we’re all just doing and being what we came here to do. It’s so inspiring. It’s gorgeous and I think if more and more people did that, allowed that I’ve always had a story in my head I remember thinking about this when I was 14-15, driving through the suburbs in Adelaide, I grew up in Adelaide, and I used to think I wonder how many Jimi Hendrix’s live in this suburb, but have never picked up a guitar for fear of, you know not sounding good, or, or how much it’s going to take of them to do it or what their friends might or, or getting distracted or the pressures of no you’ve got to go and study finance or marketing or ra ra ra, but how many of us still today could pick up that metaphorical guitar, and start to build that relationship with the thing that makes us come alive. There’s a great quote by an author perhaps to leave everyone with, we often think we’re tired because we’ve done too much but quite often it’s because we’ve done too little of what sparks a light in us. And this inspired energy that you are Murray, that we’re talking about is getting back to the things that light a fire in us.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, well I totally agree, totally agree. Do you have a mic drop sound that you can play there? That’s pretty good. Cause that that that is a great way to finish, I totally agree. How can everyone and here’s the invitation, and encouragement based on what you said earlier. For the next 50 days how can you take five minutes out to do that thing that you make sure is bringing that fire back into you.

Mykel Dixon  

A sacred space of self indulgence. Don’t do something that will lead to an outcome. Don’t do something that, you know, if I do 20 situps a day by the end I’ll have abs. Falling back in love with the journey, the process, five minutes a day of just something that reminds and realigns you to the thing that makes you come alive. I mean, come on we need to get a place where it’s more than five minutes a day but if we can start there, I think we can do that.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah, I’m looking forward to people sharing what that thing is that they do. And, and I’ll close the loop with you Myk and let you know what they are.

Mykel Dixon  

Can’t wait. Thanks for having me Murray, it’s been an absolute pleasure.

Murray Guest  

It’s been amazing to catch up, we’ll make sure your website is in the show notes, people can check you out there and amazing time with you today my friend. Thank you.