Episode 113 – Dr Rajesh Kumar | Cross-Cultural Competence

In this episode I speak with Dr Rajesh Kumar — an expert in International Business Strategy and Cross-Cultural Management — on the importance of cultural competence in shaping global business success.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Rajesh, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I really appreciate our quick chat that we just had and getting to know you a little bit. But I’m really excited about sharing the uniqueness of your expertise and what you do with the podcast community today. Thank you so much. Now, something that I know about you is you’ve lived in a variety of places around the world. 

Rajesh Kumar  

Correct. Yes. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Because your work has taken you to some amazing places. Where are you living right now?

Rajesh Kumar  

I’m in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Murray Guest  

I have been there. It was a really enjoyable trip. And it’s a beautiful part of the world. How’s how’s life there at the moment for you?

Rajesh Kumar  

Well, you know, it’s it’s good. It’s just been extremely hot the past few days, or the last week or 10 days, it’s been in the 90s. And that’s been a little surprising. But I think it’s going to cool down. And so that’s good.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, good. Well, in the 90s. So we’re talking high 30s, pushing into the 40s.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I mean, this is the kind of temperature you get in India, during the summer.

Murray Guest  

You don’t expect it in Philadelphia? No.

Rajesh Kumar  

Well, no summers can be hot, you know, but I think you may even get 90s or even more than that. But you do not get 20 or 30 days of that.

Murray Guest  

Ah, yeah. Yeah. That continual. 

Rajesh Kumar  

That’s the saga. Okay. You can you can get it does get hot in the summer.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Well, so your area that you have been working in for some time is international business strategy and cross cultural management. I understand that. So help me understand how did you get to be focusing in this part of the work that you do? How did you get to focus on this?

Rajesh Kumar  

So I think a number of things one was my own personal experience as I moved from India to England, and then to the United States. And so the first thing one noticed was that India and England are very different societies culturally, historically. And you know, when you cross cultures, you do face challenges, whether communication, whether in understanding other people’s thinking. So I did face a cultural shock when I moved to England, and and then again, when I moved to the US, so I think I became attuned to the idea that cultural differences are important. And then later on, I think, in the mid 80s, when I was completing my PhD at NYU, I focused on the cross cultural dimension. And at that time, you know, there were a lot of Japanese companies coming to the United States. And so there was a huge cultural gap. And in fact, and, and I focused on negotiations and looking at how culture impacts that. And what amazes me is that in 1987, 1988 it is understandable, because America is a big market, they’re not dependent on any other countries. So there were traditionally insular and there was a good reason for, for that, a lot of American companies really didn’t expose much of the demand and our was internal, so there’s no need to do it. But fast forward 30, 35 years, 40 years down the road, when you go to any supermarket and buy and notice that most of the things are from China, or from other Asian countries. And you’ll see very little Made in America, and I suspect the same might be in Australia as well. So the world has become a very different place, very globalized yet, you know, when you talk to people on these free, you know, people, just the ordinary people, they’re still clueless about culture.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I’ve traveled a little bit and my skin crawls, my hairs stand up a little bit, when I do see those people traveling and they’re not appreciative, they’re not respectful of those cultural differences. And I think that when we do there’s there’s a real curiosity there that has to come out isn’t there?

Rajesh Kumar  

Right? That is still not there. Right. You know, I think, and I think in America, as you know, in particular, there has always been the belief in American exceptionalism. And and I think the idea that everyone should imitate what Americans do, America is the best. And that feeling is still there. But I think and so when you have that feeling, then it also impacts the ability to learn from others. Right? So if, if American values are global values, then then of course, why should people learn from, from any others. So there’s a unique aspect to this particular culture. And yet the thing is that a lot of businesses, a lot of alliances and more partners from China or Japan or elsewhere. So in the business community, there is definitely an awareness, but still not that much. And what America actually, as a unique situation, because of its place in the global economy, I think the same blindness, or cultural blindness, I would say exists in all countries. 

Murray Guest  

I think that’s a good point to make, and I want to understand that a bit more around, it’s not about pointing the finger at one country is it, it’s around, that there’s a consistent shift that needs to be made?

Rajesh Kumar  

Right, it is simply the case that in other countries, because they are so dependent on the US, so they need to do business there. So there is the imperative to learn about American practices, and all of that. And even that, at times can get challenging, and I was just on a podcast yesterday evening with some people in Japan, and we were discussing the challenges of global negotiations. So you know, I think circus of culture is something which is it is unconscious, it is there. And it manifests itself in the kind of assumptions that we make. And this is the biggest problem. Because the assumptions that we have are unconscious.

Murray Guest  

What do you think is one of the assumptions that people may have, that subconsciously, they’re not even aware about?

Rajesh Kumar  

So you know, like, I’ll just give you an example. So in this podcast, one person related a story that they when they were in China, for example, so woman just asked her, What is your salary? Something which would never be asked in the US now, so for the person in that particular country, it was a natural thing to ask. It was something that, that you expect, kind of small things and big things that can actually impact interactions. And so other, for example, in America, you know, in general, North America and European countries, you expect, if I asked you a question, you will give me a direct response. Yes, that is expectation. And if you don’t get that response, then you might really wonder what’s going on here? Is the person interested? You know, and again, I had an interesting story yesterday, where an American manager was giving a presentation to some Japanese and so after the presentation, he laid out the price of the product, there was total silence in the room, they did not respond. And this gentleman got so frustrated, he lowered the price. And he did not really understand that the Japanese way of doing things is different. And the fact that they did not respond immediately is not a sign, is not saying that they are unhappy with the price necessarily. So it is the small instances, but you can see assumptions coming into play.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And my own personal experience. So back in the in the 90s, I worked for a global company, and I was part of a number of projects that were across different countries. And I remember that what you’re referring to there sort of occurring a few times where you might ask someone a direct question in a in a project meeting and you might not get the exact answer, or a roundabout sort of answer. And what I think I learned out of some errors and mistakes that I made that that was just a way of communicating, didn’t mean being honest. But that was their way of communicating.

Rajesh Kumar  

Exactly. And these are just some examples, but they’re just illustrative of the kind of problems that might arise. So, in many countries, in Latin America, or in Asia, if you’re doing business, you spend a lot of time socializing, drinking, you don’t get to the talk of the heart of the proposal necessarily very soon. But I guess for people from your culture or in Britain, or in the US, they might get frustrated. Unless they’re not aware.

Murray Guest  

And, and so I can imagine the awareness is a place to start.

Rajesh Kumar  

It is a place to start, but that’s not sufficient.

Murray Guest  

No. So when you work with companies and help them improve this, how do you get the shift from awareness to a change in behavior, which has better cultural appreciation?

Rajesh Kumar  

That’s the issue. Because, you know, I think one of the challenges is that that process is going to take time, and I think it is still, so that could require more time and would require a number of workshops or interventions. But a lot of companies do not have the budget or are not willing to actually spend a lot of a lot of time on that. And the other issue again, I was talking to some people is that many companies will, you know, will only hire people like us. Yeah. And in some sense, that’s actually already too late. Because so one of my messages is that if you’re doing business globally, you have to be prepared, prepared, prepared, preparation, is the key to success.

Murray Guest  

Can I just jump in there, I’m also wondering about a couple of times, you’re sort of referencing those subconscious biases that you might have. Yeah, and I think the more aware of those we can be, so that we aren’t being driven by those without realizing it. 

Rajesh Kumar  

Absolutely. And I think that’s very, very important. And I think personality also comes in, because there are some individuals who have the natural ability, or the talent, or ability to really pick up various skills, and to change their behavior. Whereas others are going to be more rigid, more introverted, and I think they’re going to have a harder time. Because much of the world, a lot of businesses is very relational. Which means you’re spending a lot of time with each other, you know, socializing and getting to know each other.

Murray Guest  

So I’ve worked with a number of leaders that have a role where they’re based somewhere like Singapore, or Australia or in London, and then they’ve got teams that are based around the world. And they’re having regular meetings like we are today over zoom or teams or something else. And what I’m wondering is, how those different cultures are respected, appreciated in those meetings, when they get together.

Rajesh Kumar  

It’s a tough issue. And it’s one, I think, which will vary from company to company, based on what we know how well they are prepared for that. In the sense that a, are they conscious of the potential problems? And are they respectful of the diversity in the group? So one of the challenges there would be, in a zoom, in a virtual meeting, that becomes more difficult, because you don’t have a face to face interaction. And one of the questions, one of the challenges is that for people coming from collectivistic cultures, they may not be so ready to speak up. So how do you get them to participate in the meeting?

Murray Guest  

So what’s, what’s your tip for that?

Rajesh Kumar  

So I think, you know, you have to actually create a certain level of psychological safety. And I think it’s not going to happen in one meeting. But I think it’s going to take a little bit of time. And the managers who are leading it have to be consistent. And you have to use subtle ways of trying to encourage those people to participate. And I think once you’re able to build this level of psychological safety, then I think it will be easier, it will never be quite the same as a lot of American, or in an Australian group. But you know, I think the question is to attain a working level. And I think that’s what the that’s what the goal should be.

Murray Guest  

Do you think, do you think it works if a leader tries to call it out, quite overtly, and help the team articulate what is important for them in the way they communicate? So do you think that would work with some cultures, but other cultures even might find that difficult to do?

Rajesh Kumar  

Yes, some might find it difficult to do unless you already built, unless you’ve had side talks with them beforehand. And then get them on board. So like, in Australia, or North America, you come to a group and, you know, the leader says, whatever it is. And so if those people are not so familiar with the leader, and it’s their first meeting, there will obviously be a certain degree of hesitancy.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah. And I think that’s a really good point. I think that socializing, the concept before the meeting, so, again, building psychological safety.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yes. Yes. That’s, that’s, that’s very, very critical. So in these teams, one other issue is the question of power. And so the leader has to be careful that not one group dominates. Because I think if you have, if you have a power imbalance, you have, say, Americans or British dominating that meeting, then the others will just shut up.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah, I know. I have seen that, unfortunately. So I understand what you mean there.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Okay, great. Great. And this is really fascinating. Thank you. And I know, it’s a challenge for a lot of people that work, as I was saying, across different countries, but also, what has been great in Australia, is we are getting more cultures represented here. So yes, more people moving here, first second generation, that are working in businesses. So you’re working with people day in day out from different cultural backgrounds as well. 

Rajesh Kumar  

Yeah, of course. And Asia is, you know Australia’s very multicultural. And I guess you’ve got a lot of immigrants from Hong Kong, China, India, and other parts of the world. 

Murray Guest  

Yes. So when you talk about cultural competence, how, if I was to explain that to the people I work with, how could I articulate that.

Rajesh Kumar  

So it is your ability to actually, you know, understand cultural situations, what’s going on, you know, what is, you know, what you might see overtly may not be what’s happening internally, so the ability to decode what is going on, as opposed to what appears to be going on. And there’s often a difference. So in this case, which an example I gave you, this man had no idea about the situation when he was making this presentation to the Japanese. He could not decode what silence meant. Right? So that’s got to be able to decode situations as to what is actually going on. Because unless you don’t understand that you cannot have a response, or you cannot have an effective response. So that’s one thing. Then I think you also got to have the temperament to be able to build relationships. And and that requires patience, perseverance, and the ability to overcome failures.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, because I was wondering about that gentleman in that situation where he didn’t consider the cultural difference. So when, when that gentleman gets in that situation, or if someone feels they’re in that situation where maybe they have misread the difference.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yes.

Murray Guest  

What do you do then?

Rajesh Kumar  

So I think you don’t want to be in that situation ideally. So you should have been more aware of what the typical Japanese response is going to be. He should have known that silence does not mean that they are disagreeing with your view. He could have given them space, if they are silent, he could also have been silent. Right?

Murray Guest  

In that situation, do you know what happened? What was the final outcome?

Rajesh Kumar  

So he lost out. So they settled at a lower price. Because they figured out that he’s lowering his price. So then it worked to the Japanese advantage. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah gotcha. Yep. And, and I guess, when it comes to major contracts, or major sales, not understanding or preparing, as you’re saying, which is so critical, and not seeing the culture, can have some real impact.

Rajesh Kumar  

Oh it does, and also in relation to the issue of contracts. Meaning of contracts, and how flexible should the contracts be. So in Japan, it’s more, you know, they have a much more of a flexible view of contracts. So the assumption is that if situations change, then you should also be prepared to accommodate. But in North America, Australia, England, it’s a different view, you signed a contract and so that comes with its own obligations and duties. So but even here, you know, I think if the contract is big enough, and the parties are in a long term relationship, they might renegotiate it but that would be more done on a more informal basis.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Okay, gotcha. So sounds like there’s some key differences between culture you’ve identified over the years, and you’ve talked about communication, even that listening and pausing, but even how we might manage contracts. What are some of the other major differences that you’ve noticed between cultures?

Rajesh Kumar  

The issue of time is important. And maybe you’ve experienced it when you were working in those global teams.

Murray Guest  

So I’ve got a thought, but what are you what are you thinking about time in this situation?

Rajesh Kumar  

Some cultures like US, Australia, so we agreed to meet at nine o’clock. 9pm. So in India, time has a much more lasting view. So if you invite someone for dinner at 730, they might, they might not show up to 830 or nine. And so the expectation is that there’s going to be a delay. So so obviously, that can drive people a little, those who are not used to it. Frustrating, yes. And so you need to plan for it. And, and so what that means is, I was giving this advice to someone yesterday, that if you are doing projects in India, and you know, you plan for a couple of weeks of delay, if you expect the projects to be done in, say two weeks, right? Recognize it might. you pad it up, and you recognize it might be three or four weeks. Right. So the issue of time is important, because it impacts everything.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And guess what I was also thinking about there with time is when you communicate to someone, how you will get back to them on a task or some information. And I feel like that there’s some differences there. And I’d love to know what you think. Whether it could be, someone might say I’ll get back to you next Wednesday morning and someone might be I’ll get back to you when I get back to you, like a bit more broad, bit more open.

Rajesh Kumar  

Right? Yes, yes. So I think, you know, you’ve got to just factor that in and the decision making and the other thing is you can try to create your own culture, culture that might actually where you train or educate people the importance of sticking to time or to deadlines. And, and certainly if you’re submitting a bid or you’re trying to complete a project on time, then I think you know, that is critical, because otherwise you may face penalties.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. So what’s popped into my head here is, I love what you’re saying about creating your own culture, because what I’m thinking is, how do you create that culture that’s like a middle ground? Right? It’s not like everyone has to come across to one country’s culture or another, but how do we respect and appreciate both or multiple and find that middle ground?

Rajesh Kumar  

Right. So you know, you work in this particular area in terms of corporate culture. So and you must have said, it’s essentially, it’s essentially creating, you know, what I would say, company wide ethos, the company does various things, which in a very broad level, then you allow for unique local variations.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, okay. Yeah. And I think where I’ve done work with teams and leaders around creating their culture, their way of working, I think my do better is, let’s overtly also talk about the cultural differences as well. 

Rajesh Kumar  

Of course, yes, yes, yes. When you’re doing this, you will obviously talk about this as well. And I think a lot of global companies have their own training development centers, with people from different parts of the world for workshops and training. And so I think that would be the way to actually build that.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think you’re right. And I think that the there’s a word that we’ve been exploring, which I think is so important, is that curiosity, you know, that appreciation.

Rajesh Kumar  

Absolutely, very important. Yes. The only thing I would say is that, for the small to medium sized company, the cultural barriers may be more of a challenge. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. 

Rajesh Kumar  

Because they don’t have the resources, either the financial and managerial to, to say, provide these training programs, and, and all of this.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, no, that’s a good point. So if there’s a leader or owner from a small business that would like to invest in that cultural competency, where do you think they could start?

Rajesh Kumar  

Oh, there are a lot of training shows, that a lot of training companies in Australia that do this business. There are, you know, and, and, you know, a lot of companies I also provide services in that area. So there’s a lot of service providers.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think. So maybe searching for that global, sorry, global competency, cultural competency as well. But also, I know that you’ve got a range of articles on your website as well, which is a good place to go have a look.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yeah, right. There’s lots of different. Yes, absolutely. Go ahead.

Murray Guest  

No, no, no, no, please. I’m excited. I want to ask you another question. But Rajesh please continue.

Rajesh Kumar  

I’m just saying cultural differences, so there’s been a lot of discussion about globalization, and what impact it is having. And actually, in a way, paradoxically, and based on what’s going on in the world, I think it just seemed that people are moving apart, rather than coming together. And I think culture is one aspect of it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, of course. What do you think, and for you I’m just wondering, obviously, the last couple of years COVID has been something that’s impacted? What do you think that has, what has been the impact of that? Do you think?

Rajesh Kumar  

I think it’s been quite profound, I think, at different levels, I think, you know, so it has impacted campaigns, approaches to doing business. And I was talking to someone who does a lot of business in Asia, and he was saying because of COVID, they could not travel. And that impacted their ability to do business in those countries. Yeah, because they’re relationship-based cultures. And then you know, and then different countries have had very varying, and very conflicting COVID policies, like China is having their zero COVID strategy. And I think even Australia was pretty stuck.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, we had some very strict staying at home rules for some time. And the other challenge we had was quite different at the same time across across different capital cities in the country. Yeah, yeah.

Rajesh Kumar  

Right. So, so yeah, a lot of countries have had those policies, and it is shifting and changing, but I think we are still not where we ought to be.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Okay. So what, what work are you doing at the moment? Who, what sort of companies are you supporting at the moment? What are you doing with them?

Rajesh Kumar  

Right, so really providing them coaching and training in terms of negotiation, in terms of cross cultural issues. All of that. Yes.

Murray Guest  

Yeah great. And one of the things I’m pondering is, there’s there’s the real I guess, overt glaring differences between some cultures, and then others it’s a bit more subtle, for example, what would be a subtle difference between, say, the English culture and the American culture that you’ve been more aware of?

Rajesh Kumar  

Right, so you know, I think one is their approach towards money. In America everything is about money. And I think Britain, British are less so, or at least you don’t overtly talk about it. Not to that not to that same degree.

Murray Guest  

So the openness or the readiness to discuss money, openly, much more America.

Rajesh Kumar  

Everything about, you know, that that’s, you know, it’s the land of making money, it’s the American dream, it’s the and of course, you know, obviously, this is a country that has had a huge number of billionaires and the environment is friendly towards that. So that’s one thing. Second, of course, you know, I think Britain has a much deeper, longer historical legacy. It’s been a much longer settled society, in America about 200 years. So I think, you know, so the British have a certain view of history. And I think for America it’s the new frontier.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And it’s a bit like, in Australia being, you know, how we need to reconcile with indigenous people is an ongoing thing, it’s something we need to do a lot more work with here in Australia. Again, short history of white people being here, which we’re settled by convicts.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yeah, exactly. And then I think Americans are much more aggressive. Than the British, in a general sense. Because cultural differences are matters of degree, out of time. So you know, so even within Europe, I’ve lived in Denmark, I’ve lived in France, I’ve lived in Finland, you can also notice subtle differences there. So Denark is a very homogeneous country in a way. Just what 5 million people I think. And, and so very closed.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Whereas I mean, America. 300 or so. Yes.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yes, yes. Yes. So. So you know, so I think to even understand culture, you have to understand the history, the, you know, where are the countries coming from. And that’s, I think, also one of the issues in terms of the tensions that we have seen between the West and China, for example. China is a very ancient civilization. Yeah. And, you know, all and so I think, and the point that I’m making is that in international business, you have to look at three important things. One is culture. Never also forget about history or politics. And third, you have to look at the context of the situation. And so which is again, I think that cultural factor because Americans don’t pay attention to the history and, and, and so China is a ancient civilization that’s been around for even much longer than what America has been. So their view is colored by their past historical experiences. Same goes for India as well. Yeah, yeah. So you know, so the legacy of British colonialism, imperialism, still writs large, as well as in China.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think one of the things you said earlier, again, about preparation, linking the cultural understanding, the history, the context and building that preparation. Yeah.

Rajesh Kumar  

Absolutely. And I think what employers do is, so when you build a relationship, if you can convey to the other person that you know about their culture and are interested in learning about it, it’s an easier way to build rapport.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah.

Rajesh Kumar  

And so I think it’s good from that standpoint. And I think more broadly, it’s also good, because then you can recognize what might be feasible, what might not be feasible?

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And you’re reminding me of the global team was working with last year. And they were meeting online, every month, as a group from a number of different countries. And I think what was great is that realization they came to was the way they were structuring the meeting of being very structured, very focused on our results, what are we delivering on, represent, or reflect or appreciate or respect those different cultures around how we want to run that meeting. And where that was coming from, because some people wanted to spend the first 15 minutes let’s just chat and connect.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yeah, yes, yes, yeah.

Murray Guest  

But this leader with all good intent was saying, right, we just need to update on our KPIs. So again, I think there’s that appreciation and curiosity.

Rajesh Kumar  

Recognize you have to manage diversity. Yeah. And understand that too. That’s why I said to build a common culture. And that comes from an understanding of what the gap is, and then using tools and skills and other facilitation methods to create that, to create that, to create that overall sense of, you know, you know, wellbeing, respect among the group.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. Now, I’m intrigued, I need to ask you, you’ve mentioned before you’ve lived in quite a number of places around the world. Which ones stand out to you, because you’ve lived in some amazing parts of the world. Like, which one do you wish you could go back and live in again?

Rajesh Kumar  

Oh, well. That’s, that’s, that’s a hard question. You know, I think all countries have their own unique charms and insights. And to tell you my story, so I’ve lived in in the US for 20 plus years, and in Europe for about 15. And so I moved back to the US in 2014, from England. And then actually, I spent six months in New Zealand in 2019. So but I was in India, generally from 2016 to 2020. And I eventually decided to relocate back to the US. So I’ve completed my journey where I started from, not from where I started from, from where I became a little settled to come back to this particular country. Now, this is a very individualized experience. So for me, I think eventually, it is a US.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, wow. Great. And have you lived only in Philadelphia or have you lived in other parts of the country.

Rajesh Kumar  

New York and lived in Boston. I’ve lived in California. I lived in Columbus, Ohio. So I’ve lived in London, Nottingham, Aarhus, Vasa, Paris, Wren and Andover.

Murray Guest  

And now your base is the US. Where would you like to travel to that you haven’t traveled to? 

Rajesh Kumar  

South America. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. South America. That’s right. And some parts of Asia.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I love the traveling that I do with my wife, and we get to really experience the culture. 

Rajesh Kumar  

And have you been to India? 

Murray Guest  

Well, my wife has but I haven’t. And she, she loved it. She spent a couple of weeks there. And she thought it was fantastic. And she’s traveled more than I. So yes, I would. I would love to now that we can travel again after the last few years.

Rajesh Kumar  

Now, it’s now it’s now it’s easy. Yes.

Murray Guest  

I would definitely like to go there. And again, South America like you. And there’s parts of Europe I haven’t been to that I’d love to go and experience.

Rajesh Kumar  

Yes, yes. 

Murray Guest  

I was just gonna say but yeah, when when traveling and meeting people and hearing their stories, and, and trying the local food. I think there’s something just that helps us connect when we do that, and I love doing it. Yeah I’ve been mindful of, being mindful of those assumptions. And, and checking those, and holding those maybe a bit loosely. 

Rajesh Kumar  

Wonderful. That’s that’s, that’s brilliant. You know, so I think cultural travel opens a new vista for you. And many people don’t realize the benefits that it brings. They are conscious of the costs and all of that. Yeah. And many people are very quick. And that’s the other thing I would say. Many people are very quick to make judgments. And, and probably in any situation, but in cross cultural situations, it can be dangerous. Because you make judgments, because you don’t, even when you don’t have full information. Right. So I think the thing is that we work in our mind 90% of the time. And the mind works unconsciously. And the mind likes to control the things. And so too, because control gives you predictability. So what the mind does is makes judgments for you. And the question is, you can’t make judgments when you don’t really know fully what’s going on? And there’s another challenge in cross country situations.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Which I think, definitely what’s jumping out to me through our conversation today is that that curiosity and those assumptions, but also something you sort of, I think is so powerful there about that slowing down. When you rush in, that’s not going to help.

Rajesh Kumar  

So this gentleman, the example I gave you, this person rushed, he lowered his price. He could not wait. And so that also reflects time, is very conscious of time. Yeah, he could not deal with the delay. And, and he used his American model to project onto the Japanese. That because they have not said anything, it means that they, they’re not happy with the price.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great, great. So again, such a valuable example where taking the time to understand those cultural differences.

Rajesh Kumar  

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. And again, a cultural factor, because I think Asian cultures spend much more time because of understanding. Not not American or European cultures.

Murray Guest  

Dr. Kumar, thank you so much. for your time today. It’s been wonderful to connect with you. And I’ve realized, as we were talking, in my excitement, I jumped in a few times when you were talking.

Rajesh Kumar  

And that’s fine.

Murray Guest  

Once again, this is my awareness of my, my, you know, slowing down to really appreciate those differences. So it’s been so good to connect with you and learn. And I’m sure lots of people listening today would have got so much value out of this. Really appreciate the knowledge that you have in this area, because as you said, so important for anyone working across different cultures.

Rajesh Kumar  

Right. Thank you, Murray. I think it was a pleasure to be on your show. And thank you for inviting me.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, thank you so much. So to wrap things up, I have two quick questions. First one is if people would like to know more about the work you do, and they want to get in contact with you, where should they reach out?

Rajesh Kumar  

That can go on my LinkedIn profile or my website.

Murray Guest  

Great. And I’ll make sure they’re both linked in the show notes so people can connect with you there. So thank you. And the last question is, what’s your definition of inspired energy?

Rajesh Kumar  

It’s, I would say it is, you know, just breaking out of your old habits. It is, it is being very creative in creative ways.

Murray Guest  

I love that. And I think breaking out of those old habits, and being creative is such a great summary of what we’ve talked about today. And brings that energy. Thank you so much.

Rajesh Kumar  

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Murray.

Murray Guest  

All the best for the rest of 2022.

Rajesh Kumar  

Thank you, same to you, and hope you recover soon. Thank you.

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