Episode 51 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Charlotte Jameson

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Welcome Charlotte to the podcast as we head into another decade, I’m so looking forward to talking to you about wellbeing and digital wellbeing. How are you?

Charlotte Jameson  

I’m really well, thank you, Murray, how are you?

Murray Guest  

I’m fantastic. I’ve been loving these conversations we’re having with people about the past decade and what’s coming up for this decade. And hearing all your insights, and I know connecting with you, you’ve got a lot to share as well. And I’m actually really looking forward to this 2020s. And what they hold for us.

Charlotte Jameson  

Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s going to be interesting, I think. I actually hold a lot of faith in the youth, to be honest, for 2020 and beyond. I think there’s consciousness that that the youth can bring to society. So I’m looking forward to seeing that really unfold.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Well, I think in the last few years, we’ve certainly seen a lot more activism around climate change and around inequality, and people standing up and making sure those voices are heard. When you think about the youth, and what’s going to be ahead for them going forward this next decade, what do you think is going to be some of the, I guess, the challenges going forward?

Well, I kind of think that there’s going to be two, sort of two types, there’s going to be those who have really been fortunate enough to understand the brain and understand themselves, understand what modern day life really holds. And then there’s going to be the other the other sort of group who haven’t had those opportunities to understand those sorts of things. And they’re not going to be privy to understand, it’s like diet, you know, and smoking, a lot of people just did it, and they didn’t realize, well, I think there’s going to be a group that don’t realize the impact that technology is going to have on our brain, on our eyes on our muscles, on our mental health. They don’t realize that how, how sleep is such a priority for life and for the ability to actually thrive in life. And so by just by pure unawareness, they’re not going to prioritize sleep, or they’re not going to prioritize downtime, or switching off for, you know, time in nature, just simply because they don’t necessarily know. And then there’s going to be that group that do, are privy to that information, and have the opportunity to actually take the time out and to do those things. And to be, you know, to socialize with people who are like minded in that sort of way. And I think that they’re really going to, you know, take things forward. So it’s a bit of a mission for me, too, for anybody who wants to hear about it, to let them know these things, because I think everybody has, you know, everyone has a right to information. Yeah, they don’t have to take it up. But I think everyone, you know, has a right to know what they’re doing. When they, when they’re actually involved in these sorts of technologies or, or deprioritize, sleep and that sort of thing. So

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and I actually know that in the space that you play in, working with different organizations and helping them improve their culture and that understanding of digital well being, that there’s a big push in a lot of organizations to share that information with people as well, which is great to see, isn’t it that it’s not just something that’s outside of those initiatives within organizations?

Yeah, yeah, the the push for it, even in the last sort of five years, I’ve noticed is really, we’ve been in the last three years, to be honest, Murray that, there, it’s really everyone’s starting to get on the mental health bandwagon. And it’s not just a stigma of, you know, let’s just stop depression and anxiety. It’s, hey, we can actually have well being, we can actually go to work, or here’s, here’s a thought, let’s go to work and actually be better as a result of going to work. Let’s improve our mental wellbeing, by actually going to work and that’s, that I think, is really cool. Because that taps into people tapping into their meaning and purpose.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And I think, imagine a world where it’s not we work five days, and then I’m just living for the weekend for those two days. But I’m actually loving going to work each day. And I feel better when I go home each day, not worse. And I’m just then waiting to go and party on the weekends.

Yeah, and I think it’s, it’s even more pertinent now as we move into the 2020s. Because it is, you know, on the increase. And just by having technology, you know, being able to access, having work so accessible, the lines are blurred, as we know, so it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, we’ve got to navigate this really carefully. There are some people, so for me, I’m, I like to sort of go in and out of things. And so it doesn’t, it doesn’t really bother me, I sort of put this hat on, I put that hat on, and I kind of do it seamlessly. But, you know, for other people that either that all or nothing, they’re like, Today I’m in work mode or today I’m in friend mode or parent mode or whatever mode. So I think it’s, it’s yeah, people are going to really work with this differently. And I think organizations have to be really mindful of, you know, how we how we navigate those, those blurriness. But I think if people have true meaning and purpose, then that helps a lot.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. 100%. Now, I want to come back to thinking about the upcoming decade, but also want to just tap into a minute with the about this past decade. Yeah, and what that’s been like for you, and some of those things that we can celebrate and acknowledge, because let’s be honest, there’s not enough acknowledgement and recognition in the world. Yeah. When you think about the past decade, what some things that stand out for you? Let’s take a moment to reflect on and celebrate.

Well, for me, personally, a lot has changed. I mean, the time of my life where I got married, I had kids, my career went from, you know, me sort of just absorbing, absorbing, absorbing to actually providing and actually being able to sort of give back, as well. And it’s sort of finished with me being in a bit more of a mentoring capacity with some of my colleagues and, and that’s been a huge growth. And pretty cool to kind of go back and be like, Wow, I’m actually the person who people people ask now. So that’s, that’s, that’s been a really big movement for me. I think organizations have have gone through a pretty, pretty big growth, I think, just tapping back into a conversation before about well, just the the focus on mental health and well being. I was, I was very much in the safety, as you know, in the safety industry. And that was, you know, that changed the decade before. And I think it’s been solidified this decade. But what I’ve seen, and maybe it’s through the work that I’ve been, you know, doing, but is safety is still there, but it’s more common sense, like it’s people, it’s not just oh, you’re doing safety now. No, we are safe.

Murray Guest  

And I love the evolution when you talk about safety, that it’s not the physical safety. Yeah, 10 years ago, it was, How are we managing our risks, managing our hazards to make sure people go home physically safe, fingers and toes. There’s now, if you say safety in a corporate based environment, and people think about the psychological safety, which I think is fantastic.

Yeah. And we, the program I was working with, we were talking about this notion of being safe to be well, and well to be safe, because you can’t have one without the other. And, yeah, and especially when you sort of think about the psychosocial factors as well, the play on that. So it’s a really juicy, juicy area, and we’re only sort of putting more and more focus into it. And I think everyone’s benefiting from that. So yeah, there’s been a huge transition for organizations to really think about that.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And how does it feel going back a second to the mentoring sort of sensation, and you had a bit of pride talking about that, which is fantastic, though. So how does that feel when you share your knowledge and experiences with others now? Your work colleagues and other people?

Well, I’ve always, I mean, I’ve always thought of myself as more of a coaching kind of person, someone who, you know, who gives but I guess I never really thought that I had much to give. It was more sort of a listening thing. But I can I can really see now that you know, I guess with juniors, sort of coming up in the role of facilitation, when I when I facilitate workshops, things that I just feel a common sense or just just a natural thing. It’s actually taken a good decade of hard repetition and focus and practice for me, for me to actually get to that point. So having having the juniors sort of come up and and, you know, helping them understand, you know, facilitation one on one kind of thing has, yeah, it has it’s been, I think it’s been a record of the journey that I’ve been on, but also this idea of, there were so many people who helped me get to where I am and now I get to do that as well. So yeah, yes, that’s pretty cool.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, it is. I can hear that from you as well. And I think it’s great to acknowledge that and that you’re passing on that knowledge, that experience, and as you said, and like a quote that we’ve heard before, sometimes after treading the boards, you need to do that so much as a facilitator to actually experience it and to actually really understand that and pass that on. So it’s great you’re doing that. Any lessons you’ve had in the past decade that stands out to you that you’re happy to share?

Charlotte Jameson  

I think and I was reflecting on this, because I mean, I’m all about sort of setting intentions for the for the for the new year. But I think, when I’m true to myself, that’s when things work.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And what does that look like for you?

It means, it means that I honor what I need. So motherhood has been a very, very big adjustment. In terms of I used to do a lot of physical exercise and a lot of just stuff for myself basically. And when you become a mother, or a parent or whatever, you know, that time gets less and less and less. And the importance of prioritizing that. And so I’ve had a big journey. I always talked about Yeah, you’ve got to put your oxygen mask on first, and you got to, you know, look after yourself first. But it’s really become apparent. If I’m not if I’m not going, if I’m not working, nobody else is. Yeah. So I’ve really, I’ve really started to become okay with prioritizing what I need. So I need to go to yoga. All right, I need to do, you know, exhibit A, this, this podcast, I need to do these things. Because it makes me, it’s it’s meaningful for me, and it makes me happy. And I’ve got to be okay with that. And that helps other people. So that’s being true to myself. What do I need to operate in, in in Charlotte, you know? 

Murray Guest  

A quote I heard last year that I absolutely loved and you’re reminding me of it right now is self care is not selfish.

Yeah. Well it took me so long to work that out. Yeah. And I still struggle with it. But it’s yeah, it’s it’s not selfish at all. In fact, it’s selfish not to, it’s yeah, it’s silly not to.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and particularly when you frame it up, that you’ve got people in your life that need you, that you need to care for, that you need to provide for in some way, that if you don’t look after yourself, how are you able to do that for them?

And even when you think about it from a work perspective, as well, one of my one of my dear colleagues, she she’s a real giver, and she’s a real, you know, goes 100 miles an hour, and has spent sort of the last year sorry, the last couple of months, actually quite debilitated through through some illness and that sort of thing. And she’s not able to, to give. Yeah. And, and so it is it’s that recognition of now, a lot of things going on here. But the you know, the thing I’m pulling out is, if you’ve run yourself into the ground, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t do what you want to do.

Murray Guest  

Certainly one of the biggest lessons I’ve gotten in the past decade, and I think it links to a lot of the things we’re talking about at the moment is listening to your body. And those little signals that your body gives you that something’s a bit off or not quite right, whether that’s mental, emotional, physical, and quite often as humans, we just push through and we keep going. Yeah, but actually listening to those signals and taking action on them sooner. And they’re there and let’s listen to them. Because when we don’t, we push through, that’s when we get to a situation of being so unwell we can’t actually do the things we want to do in our life. Yeah.

And it’s not about slacking off either. I was, I’ve done a lot of reflecting lately, but I was in a yoga class and, you know, the teachers sort of saying, don’t push yourself too much, or whatever. And I was just thinking, Yeah, I think that’s a really, it’s a, it’s a really good thing to think about, especially in this world when we go you know, we just stay on that treadmill the whole time. But also something that I’m working with is knowing when I’m taking the kind of the easy way out as well. And it’s just a fine, it’s a fine balance between pushing yourself to kind of strive and thrive and not burning out. So yeah. I always like to think about taking that with a pinch of salt. It’s like yes, you know, be kind to yourself, but also be kind to yourself by like, by really sort of pushing yourself as well, in a way.

Murray Guest  

Okay, so if someone’s listening to this conversation, and they’re thinking, Okay, I feel so busy with parenting, with my partner, with work, with life, how do I actually do something about this, this sense of being on the wheel and go go go but I’m not looking after myself. What’s a tip that you’ve got, that you’ve realized that you would pass on.

Charlotte Jameson  

Prioritize sleep.

Murray Guest  

Okay, so that’s it?

Having had it ripped from me for like the last six years. No, I think I mean, I think if you if you have a good night’s sleep, everything, everything works works better and you’re able to do better. Like you’re able to challenge yourself in a healthy way more when you have had that rested sleep. So I think, the one thing that I would I would say is prioritize that sleep. So I give myself a sleep curfew. Because I find it really hard. The only time I get to see my husband is you know, for about 10 minutes at night time, basically. And you know, sometimes TV is like a way that we I know it sounds stupid, but a way we connect. Because we just sit together we just go oh my gosh, what a day kind of thing. Yeah. But sometimes that that eats into my ability to go to sleep.

Murray Guest  

So what time is your curfew?

Charlotte Jameson  

Mine is nine. Yeah. Well, five, 530. Yeah, so.

Murray Guest  

I’m similar. I’m 9:30. But I seem to wake up five, 5:30 as well, every morning. And even just recently in this sort of holiday period have stayed up a bit late to watch a movie or other things, I still get up my body clock is five 530. And honestly, it is such a, an a magical time of the day, if you know that early sunrise time.

It is. Mine is not so magical, mine is sort of screaming with kids. Look, I can’t wait to have my Miracle Morning back again. And it’s just, it’s just not feasible at the moment because my kids sort of wake up. But, you know, I have faith that it’s going to happen soon, they’re going to get to that 6am mark, and I’m going to have at least 20 minutes to kind of meditate by myself or go out for a cheeky run at the beach. And I think that’s the whole the whole point about mental fitness is we all have different things in life that sort of provide different challenges. And it may not seem horrendous to hear that you’ve got kids who wake up at five 530. But for me it is because I usually have the morning, well before kids, it was all about my morning. And I’d go and do the exercise and I’d get in the right frame of mind. And I just you know, the rest of the day sort of unfolded. Whereas now I don’t, I don’t have that, which is why I need to prioritize my sleep. Because that, you know, that’s gonna get me me through that. But it’s also sort of saying, I’ve got this great quote that I keep sort of saying in life is, pain is temporary but glory lasts forever. And it is pain is only, this sort of pain that I’m feeling right now, you know, with the kids that are waking up and ruining my morning. It’s only temporary, you know, it’s not going to last forever. So I just have to find other ways in the day to get what I would get out.

Murray Guest  

I also think what you’re saying is focus on what you can do in the situation you’ve got right now, focus on what’s in your control. But also who was in your life that helps you do that? So I know in our house, what we talk about as well, okay, so with three children, with my wife, well what’s the conversations we need to have to create the environment so that we can all be at our best? And what does that look like? And I can imagine this to be a conversation you have in the near future, my youngest who loves his devices, so devices that he’ll get up at 530 but it’s no device until seven o’clock. Yeah. And we let that slip, and then we can see the impact it has on him. And so we then say, ok now bring that back. So I guess what I’m thinking about is it’s such a conversation that needs to involve everybody, not just on looking after my sleep and not everybody else. Like how do we all support each other in that is really important.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think when we get lost in the day to day, or we just sort of go along in life. You need that map. You need that map to guide you. Because otherwise it gets a bit too. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

It does. Now looking forward, 2020s, roaring 20s… Maybe some cool clothes, cool hair, maybe prohibition? Who knows what’s gonna happen? 

Charlotte Jameson  

Hey the possibilities out there.

Murray Guest  

But there they are. They are. What is some of your hopes or goals for the next decade that you’re happy to put out? I’ve had some conversations with people in this series where they’ve been putting out some personal goals as a way to sort of make it real. Or it might be career goals, or it could be just some hopes you’ve got for the work that you’re doing going forward. What does that look like for you?

Well, I, I have, I’m going to start the sort of the school system soon, with my daughter entering school. And I see myself as being a quiet role model. So I want to I really, I mean, okay, let’s face it, I really, really want to change, I want to, I want to change this, this, this need for everybody to be over committed, and being the best at everything. And I think that if we can just help everybody tap into our strengths, and, and see how we can sort of develop our strengths further, and do it in a way that’s not going to over commit ourselves, I think, when we have so many, and I’m, you know, I was one of those over committed children. And I think it worked to a degree because it kept me out of trouble. And it helped me sort of prioritize things, but there wasn’t a whole lot of time for downtime. And I think that’s really important, especially as we’re now competing with technology and, and those sorts of things, we really now more than ever need to help our children and help each other, give the give our brains the time it needs to, to make those memories to consolidate those memories and to innovate new things. That only happens when we have that white space. Yeah, we’re going from activity to activity. These kids are exhausted, we’re exhausted taking them there. And, you know, dinner gets pushed back a bit later, homework gets pushed back late later, sleep gets deprioritized. And it’s that that sort of vicious cycle. So whilst I’m I’m I definitely think there’s, you know, there’s room for people to notice, okay, what are their strengths? What are their really big interests? Let’s, you know, let’s nurture that and commit to, you know, I’m not against sort of extracurricular activities, by any means. But it’s this, it’s this busyness, it’s this, you know, oh, we need to do, you know, this code of football, this code of, you know, this musical interest and this and this, and this, it’s sort of, I’d like to think that I, and you can check back in with me next year. Just sort of, to go, Okay, what, you know, let’s just choose a few things and sort of get really good at that. And if if you want to change your mind next year, sort of just trying to nurture grit a bit more as well, sticking to something and, and building on that. 

Murray Guest  

I think we’re totally aligned in parenting approaches there. And I, I agree with you, I have had conversations with some parents over the years where I hear what’s in their calendar, and not just the busyness, but the rushingness that comes with that as well, like, we’re going to this and we’re going to rush to that, and rush to that, and they’re filling up all that time. And I totally agree that importance of whitespace doing nothing, or actually having some just time with the children or the children being by themselves. I totally agree with that. And I think that starting that off, while your daughter’s starting high school or sorry, school now is such a, you know, start start early and start those habits early to go along with as opposed to trying to create those 10 years from now.

Yeah, but I think I think it starts with the parents as well, because, you know, we’re so busy doing this, I mean, work is just it can just take up so much time, especially because we’ve got we’ve got the ability to work from home and everything, just all the all you can to do is is and I you know, I speak generally, but it’s all consuming. And so we’re always rushing to a meeting or to a work or to this or to that. And it’s and it’s really putting the onus back on on us as the adults and sort of think, Okay, well, how can I create whitespace for myself? And that, that generally rubs off on people. And how that will affect them.

Murray Guest  

I totally agree. And I am far from perfect as a father and get this moment recently that I just want to share where my son said to me, I’m bored, and I said, Good.

Yes. Yeah. Rejoice in that.

Murray Guest  

I’m glad. He’s like, What do you mean? And I said, well, like if I was if I said that to my parents when I was his age was like well go outside and play you know, off you go, go play in the street, on your bike, whatever it is. And I think that too often these days, it’s easy to slip into, well, what can I give them? What can I feed them? What sort of bit of attention can they have? A device or whatever it might be? So don’t feel that boredom is bad. That being bored creates space for reflection for creativity, of innovation, whatever it might be, for them to go searching for something, as opposed to just giving it to them.

Yeah. And you think, you know, you’ve gone out to lunch or, or something with someone and they’ve gone to pay or they’ve gone to the toilet and you’re sitting there, you know, what do you do? Do you stare and sort of just blank out? Or do you reach for your smartphone or, or whatever? 

Murray Guest  

And more often than not yeah it’s on the phone. And you see it on public transport all the time, as well. Yeah, yeah. So linking back to what you’re talking about earlier, and that digital well being. What do you see as some of those things, we need to be really mindful going forward? I mean, that’s a real simple tip, right? There is don’t go for that first instinct to pick up the device when you’re by yourself. But thinking about these this next decade, and the digital impact, what are some of those things that you think we need to be really mindful?

Charlotte Jameson  

I think doing one thing at a time, I think it’s really hard in this day and age to be okay with doing one thing at a time, we need progress we need to achieve. But I think doing one thing at a time helps us do it better. And helps us be more effective. And it also it’s what our brain is structured for. So we can certainly do a few things at a time. But we’re just we’re just toggling our attention. When we’re not, we’re not, we’re not able to do two things at once. So not multitasking, doing one thing at a time and meditate in your own way. So, you know, there’s doesn’t we don’t all have to sit and be a yogi on a rock on a mountain. But it is helping our brains focus our attention. So for me, the most easiest thing to do is, is just focusing on your breath. And that has an amazing impact on your parasympathetic nervous system. So helping people to actually engage in that, that, that calming, that’s going to happen when you do a deep breath. But also, it also helps train your brain to focus on one thing at a time. And you can do that by sitting on a rock in a mountain. Or you can do that while you’re going for a run or a walk. Or while you’re listening to music. Or while you’re waiting for your coffee. It doesn’t have to be in the traditional, you know, sense of being a yoga yogi, you can just tune into your breath at any given moment. And that’s going to help your brain focus its attention.

Murray Guest  

And a phrase that I’ve learned in the last few years is active meditation. I previously thought it was I had to go and sit on a rock and close my eyes and be in that perfect pose cross legged to meditate. But no, this idea of active meditation, like you’re talking about focusing on your breath while doing an activity. I’ve heard people say it’s when they’re washing up the dishes or when they’re vacuuming the floor, or they’re in the garden or whatever it might be. But it’s that that focus coming back to them on that one thing.

Yeah, well, we’re all different, different strokes for different folks. And I’m different at different parts of the day as well. So sometimes I like to sit and just stay still. But other times I need to move. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Now I’m going to give you the opportunity to hire a sky writer, and they’re going to put a message across the earth. And this message is everybody’s going to see it, everybody can read it, they can’t avoid it. What is this one message you would love everyone to see, and to get to help them be successful in the next decade?

Wow. I think I think it’s I think I think to give, to give meditation a go in its own form, because where we really need to look after our brain and our mind. And the way we’re going to do that is by by giving it some time to actually do its job. And if we’re if we’re we’ve got technology and we’ve got busyness then we’re taking that job away from it. So I think in meditate in your own way, I think is is possibly one of the key messages.

Murray Guest  

Love it and that’s totally different from all the other ones I’ve been talking and getting a beautiful one. I think it, I like the not meditate, because I can imagine people seeing that on the sky and going, Yeah, sure. But meditation your way, find your way. I love that. Yeah, yeah. And that empowers people again to to focus on their strengths and what that might line up for for them the way that they want to to, to get back that focus. Thank you so much for all your knowledge and sharing and inspiration and tips. It’s been amazing connecting with you Charlotte. Thank you.

Charlotte Jameson  

Thank you for the conversation. It’s been very fun.

Murray Guest  

No, that’s no trouble. But now where’s the best place online for people to find you and find more about what it is that you do?

Okay, well, my Instagram is quite active. So Charlotte Jameson is just one word, is my Instagram. But I also have a web page where you can find some blogs on Charlottejameson.com.

Murray Guest  

Great, fantastic. We’ll share the links to those in the show notes and it’s been awesome connecting with you. I’m going to check in with you at the end of this year to see how you’re going with your, your goals around parenting and busyness and balancing that. And of course, wishing you the most successful 2020s coming up as well.

Thank you, you too Muz. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you. 

Murray Guest  

Thanks, Charlotte. See ya.

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Episode 50 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Steph Clarke

In this episode I chat with Steph Clarke, where she shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Steph, welcome to the roaring 20s podcast as we are going to get into a new decade and we’re going to talk about the past decade and the new decade coming up. You describe yourself as a facilitator bookworm cat lady. Is that the order? Or do the cats come first? How is it for you?

Steph Clarke  

It kind of depends on the day and depends on which cat so we’ve gotten, so on a small complete tangent, we’ve kind of got a cat who is laying asleep quite close to me at the moment. And when we got her my boyfriend was very much like, oh, yeah, fine. We can get a cat like he was pretty non-fussed. Because I’m definitely the cat lady. Anyway, this cat loves him and does not like me. She’s only, only about three years old. So we’re stuck with her probably for another like 10, 13 years. And it’s just the most ironic cat because she was she she also she hates other cats. We can’t even get any more. So I’m stuck with this cat that doesn’t like me. And my boyfriend’s turned into this massive cat sop.

Murray Guest  

That is beautiful. So you should call yourself a frustrated cat lady because you haven’t quite got there.

Steph Clarke  

I just go to other people’s houses and admire their cats and play with their cats instead.

Murray Guest  

And what sort of cat is it?

It’s kind of a domestic shorthair, moggie kind of thing. She was a, she was a foster. We had her for about six months as a foster. And then we decided to keep her because I couldn’t possibly split her and my boyfriend up.

Murray Guest  

Maybe some strategies you could try like you’re the only one that feeds the cat.

Steph Clarke  

Well, we did we have tried that. And he’s going away for three weeks in January, sort of February time. So I’m hoping that’s going to be the turnaround. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah just you know, some little messages, some subtleties that I’m here for you, I’m protecting you, giving you food.

Steph Clarke  

He’s abandoned you for three weeks. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Yeah. Put a photo up on him on a dartboard next to the cat’s bed. And a bookworm. Tell me about that. So you what sort of books, what is this, a thirst for learning? What, tell me more about that.

Steph Clarke  

It’s kind of a lifelong thing. So I was definitely that kid who my parents I’m sure were were very frustrated by it in many in many ways. But partly because I would not go to bed because I’d be up reading or be under the covers and trying to trick my parents into thinking I was definitely asleep. And yeah, but I like to sleep completely under the covers with a small light, just in case. So I was that child growing up. And so just really loved books. And my sister always laughs and still laughs at me 30 years on that my favorite book as a child was the kids encyclopedia. Yes, I was a complete nerd and but then kind of stopped reading as much probably in my early 20s. And things just, as I was starting a career, was busy working, etc. And just didn’t really read as much other than binging some books on holiday. And that was kind of more fiction. But now in probably the last five years or so I’ve really got into my nonfiction of some good recommendations and wanting to kind of take my career to new heights and learn new things, and particularly in a learning and development environment where I was looking for new ideas and things that I hadn’t seen in the organizations, countries, companies, etc, that I was working with, or for. So that was a great way of doing that. And after a good few recommendations, I got really into reading and was reading 30 or so books a year. And then I realized that I was struggling to remember all of the different, you know, what was that story in that book? Or was that one good? Or was that one better? Or in particular, it’s similar authors, or same author. So this year 2019, I started a podcast about books, so that I can remember and also to be able to recommend books to other people, because often people will then say to me, because I read a lot and say, Steph, what’s a great book on x. So I’d say, Oh, I can’t remember. Let me go back through my notes and look back through my bookshelf. Whereas now I can just be like, listen to episode 12.

Murray Guest  

So we’re gonna plug that podcast, we’re gonna get that out there for those people that do love reading and do love books. What is the name of your podcast?

Steph Clarke  

Steph’s business bookshelf.

Murray Guest  

Steph’s business bookshelf, I love it. And I’ll make sure that that’s shared as part of the show notes as well. I’m going to put you on the spot. What books this year that have been really sticky, have really stuck with you this year.

Steph Clarke  

Tt’s probably two. One of them was an everyone culture, which was a recommendation by my friend Annie and Robert Keegan and Elisa Leigh, who are Harvard professors, and in organizational development and psychology, if you’re kind of into that kind of thing. It’s fairly academic, but it was just such an affirming book for the type of work I want, I do and want to do more of which is really changing the way that organizations are run, designed, how people have developed that learning culture, and kind of really got me excited again, not that I wasn’t already but it got me even more excited about the work I’m doing and the potential of it, if it’s taken to that next level, and seeing that there are organizations out there who are taking those things to the next level. That was very exciting. I think and then one that I really enjoyed about productivity because I really like productivity as a topic is When by Daniel Pink.

Murray Guest  

I’ve heard of that one. But yeah, not read it yet. Yeah.

Steph Clarke  

So cool and some incredible stories and case studies around and science about how it’s not what we do it’s when we do it, that’s the important thing, or it’s not how we do it but it’s when we do it. That’s the important thing. So whether you’re typing or doing something more creative, or something more analytical, thinking about when in the day is the best time to do that. And even when in a year is the best time to do things and best times of the week, etc. So some really cool stuff in there that I took lots of ideas away from.

Murray Guest  

Well, I’m gonna check that out. Definitely. So my book recommendation for 2019. And I’ve got to be honest, I actually, can I have two? Can I have two?

Steph Clarke  

You have as many as you want.

Murray Guest  

You can’t hurt me by David Goggins. Really enjoyed that. And I’m seeing him in January in Sydney. So that’s very cool. But the other one is Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kennedy. And I’ll be honest, I’m doing that on audio book. And I thought I’ll just listen to that while I’m doing some work. And actually, no I’ve got to really focus and listen to this. But yeah, I really enjoyed that as well.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah, I don’t think Daniel came in as someone you can just listen to in the background. Generally, the his ideas are fairly, fairly thorough, shall we say?

Murray Guest  

Yes, lots of research, lots of depth. And I think it was just giving me that depth of understanding of some things I knew from other training that I’ve done. But yeah, came again for recommendation and yeah, totally enjoying that. Okay, cool. So as a facilitator, what is one of your passions that you love to facilitate around?

Steph Clarke  

I really like hard team conversations. So hard facilitation is one of the things that I if I am going to sum it up as in a fairly informal way would be would be that. So helping teams have the conversations that they need to, maybe that they’re not having or haven’t had, I’ve had the opportunity to work with some teams who had some fairly long, ongoing, dynamic challenges, shall we say? And the amazing thing, whilst they’re sometimes a bit stressful, and maybe a bit nerve wracking before you go in and walk in the room, because it really could go either way, depending on the characters and the personalities in the room. And there’s been some that I’ve done, where I’ve actually been warned by various people in the room about the various things that could go wrong, which is good, but also slightly nerve wracking. But the just that moment where you get where you ask the right question, or you build up to asking the right question, or you build up to something over the course of maybe two days or a day, and then it just opens up, and everyone starts to go, Okay, we, we can go there. Yeah, I just I just love that moment. And I love the the fact that you have to think, it doesn’t just happen by accident. So the intent and the design, and the prep that goes into getting to that point is the bit that I also really enjoy, because it’s a real challenge. And you don’t know what’s going to come out the end. It’s not like a recipe where you go, add three of these and one of those and two of that. And this magic thing will pop out the other end of two days. It’s quite dynamic. And you do have to change things as you go. And I do like that element to it, there is that that bit of unknown.

Murray Guest  

And I’ve had people ask me as a facilitator, like, how do you start a workshop? And how do you run something after lunch? And I’m like, it actually is such a big question, because there’s so much more to it. And one of the things that I would say is actually, the key thing is, as a facilitator, it’s reading the room, it’s reading the energy in the room, what’s going on in the room, not, here’s my agenda. That’s actually what’s going on in the room, and I’m getting the, you know, the hair standing up type thing, because when you talk about that space, where people are opening up, and we’re starting to really share, and having those conversations we’ve been avoiding, or being too tough or too hard, and we’re holding on to all that stuff from the past. Man, that is so cool. We get to that place.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. And also the fact that a lot of people will say to me, you know, how do you manage those things in the room? Or how do you kind of start the workshop? So it’s, and to me, the point that’s missing from a lot of those questions I get, and yeah, largely just because people haven’t had that kind of experience, which is fine, is that it doesn’t start in the room. Yeah, has to be something that you are doing and probably multiple things you’re doing before you step in the room and not just you yourself as a facilitator that you’re planning and things but the interaction you’re having with people beforehand so that they know they’re not spending the first two or three hours working out, Are you okay? Are we safe here? But we’re actually, and also is this even a good good use of my time? Yeah. Again, I’ve had a few times.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, me too. And I’d even say how are we start those those sessions? I’ve unfortunately experienced where it’s like, Okay, we’re on the clock. Bang. Let’s start this tough conversation. Like Hang on, we’re gonna lay some groundwork first.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. At 10am is tough conversation time. Let’s go.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, that’s right. Now, the past decade 10 years, what stands out to you? What would you love to share as some lessons you’ve got from that past decade?

Steph Clarke  

It’s a bit of a very big question, isn’t it. And it’s funny that you, when we had our conversation beforehand, or you sent some some notes through, some ideas for us to talk about, I hadn’t even thought about reflecting on that decade. So that was really cool to actually think about that. Because I’ve definitely thought a lot about the last year because it’s been a huge year in terms of leaving my corporate role, starting my own thing, properly working for myself, starting a podcast training as a Pilates instructor, getting a cat, you know, all of these different things in one year, that’s just one year. So I needed to lie down after I’ve thought about 10 years which. And for me, the last 10 years has actually been incredibly pivotal in terms of life work career. So 2009 was actually the year that I transitioned from accounting or started the transition from accounting into facilitation or into learning and development, initially into those kind of technical training and things like that for other accountants or other auditors at the time. So that was really fun. And so that was a huge pivot year for that, because I’d been working up to that for a few years or a couple of years beforehand. So that was the beginning. And then 2014, in 2014 moved to Australia. So that was another big pivotal moment, yeah, half decade, had my hair cut off in 2015. That was obviously a large, very significant part of my life. The 20s, the this decade or so 2009 to 2020 has been has been big. And it’s been pretty life defining and career defining in many ways, including the things I’ve just mentioned. But also some of the promotions and progressions I had in my corporate role that put me into different positions and different experiences, which were hugely again, career defining, because it really took me into different directions or, or affirmed a direction I was going into in terms of some of the development and experiences I had, and again, helped me find that technical accounting training wasn’t what I was always going to be doing, and gave me the opportunity to get into more soft skills or leadership development.

Murray Guest  

Seriously why are they called soft skills.

Steph Clarke  

I know that the hardest stuff anyway, yeah, difficult skills, let’s call them and then also into leadership. And then, and then more recently, in the last couple of years, working more with teams and team development and helping teams actually be better teams.

Murray Guest  

Yep. Can I ask what was it that guided you or inspired you to move into the l&d space?

Steph Clarke  

So I worked for one of the big four for a number of, 13 and a half years. And early on, so I joined them when I was 18. So I joined straight from school, didn’t go to uni. And I went through the training program and joined and became a qualified accountant in the first couple of years or three years. And so it’s one of those things, it’s like, okay, this is just clearly a great thing to do is going to be like trying to be an accountant, work, learn, get paid, etc, etc. Yeah, within about 12 to 18 months, I realized that actually really wasn’t that much fun. And whilst I worked with incredible people, and many of whom I’m still good, like some of my closest friends are still from from that period, we will get out alive, luckily, but we, one of the things that was really clear was when I went to the training courses, I was always thinking, what would I be doing differently. And even though that’s not something I had any experience in, I wasn’t, you know, a teacher or anything like that. But I was always looking at the facilitators and just being incredibly jealous that they were at the front of the room that will be attention, and that they got to do this for all, they could do with this creative stuff. And yeah, inside I was definitely assessing and silently and sometimes not so silently judging what they were doing, how they were doing it, etc. And so I thought well, actually, maybe that’s the fun thing, because it’s got the technical because I do yeah, I did like the I suppose the profession, in terms of I liked having a thing and it was technical. And there was problems to solve. And it was fairly complex at times, I did like doing the work. So combining the two, that creative element of the training and the teaching and thinking about oh, cool, I could create a whole case study around this and those things, plus then a teaching element plus then the profession to me was like an excellent out, because I didn’t know what else I was going to do.

Murray Guest  

What when I hear that and hear that was part of who you are, it sounds like you’re following your calling. And suddenly that was inside of you of like this is this is the stuff that I love. This is where I want to be. And now would you change it? Would you go back to be an accountant? I know the answer. 

Steph Clarke  

But you know, I would not, I would not not have done it again. So if I had my time again, I would still do the same thing because I just think the skills you learn going out to I was 18 years old going out to clients who were in their 50s 60s had been doing financial controllers financial directors have been doing that job for god knows how long and getting to ask them questions about their business, how things worked, what was going on who was who’s the person to talk to who knows more about this understanding, obviously, then the actual accounting and frameworks and things that they were using as well. You don’t get many, I don’t think there’s too many professions you get where you’re doing that kind of thing at that kind of level, at quite a young age. And honestly, that was unique in the sense that I didn’t go to uni and chose that option anyway, which isn’t something that is well, particularly in Australia is widely done, especially in that profession, in the UK, a bit more, which thing is a great thing. But also then the the transferable skills you get in terms of bit of you know, sometimes you fear auditors, element of conflict management, negotiation stuff, again, depending on what level you get to and how far you obviously progress. But yeah, I think there’s and also just from now running my own business, being able to talk to a balance sheet and a p&l. Again, that’s something that freaks so many people out there, and even just from a, you don’t have to run your own business for that skill to be useful. You can even as, as when I was in learning and development, being able to talk to sort of the more commercial side of things was very, very useful.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And the other part that I would add, I can imagine you can put yourself into the shoes of the people you’re working with, because you’ve been there, you’ve done that. And that’s something that you can’t get unless you you’ve been there. So now let’s let’s sort of forget looking back and look forward. And think about the next decade. What do you think is… Actually I’m going to ask you, what is one of your hopes do you think for the next decade?

Steph Clarke  

That’s very existential. For for humanity, I think it is for humanity. I think there’s a bit of lacking,

Murray Guest  

You can go as big or as small.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. So I feel like we got to start that see, it’s a bit more humanity in the world, which would be good. Yeah, in terms of various different challenges that are being faced, I think there’s, there’s a new wave of thinkers, politicians, all of those things coming through, they’re not there yet. Unfortunately, we see that but there’s cracks and lights coming through, which is very exciting as a new generation, and start to edge into into the frame. That’s very cool. So I’m hopeful, very hopeful for that. Now to talk from selfish perspective. For me, it would be to really embed everything I’ve spent the last 10 years very intentionally working on and to almost have that inflection point in that pivot point of exponential growth and experiences and taking that now, compounding that and compounding last 10 years into new experience, harder client engagements, collaborations with awesome people, which was a goal, there’s one in particular that I’ve got lined up for next year, which I’m really, really excited about. So yeah, I think it’s to to embed that and it sounds kind of wanky, I suppose. Is that allowed? One of the things that I heard someone describe themselves or other people as, was professionally well known. So it’s that not that look for fame, because I don’t think that’s necessarily the right mindset. But that idea that you can be and I don’t really like the term thought leader anyway, because I think that sounds a bit too thinking about stuff rather than doing things, personally. But for me, it’s that professional well known thing around Steph can solve, or in the next couple of years, I’d love people to be thinking Steph can solve really hard team problems and help us make our way through and guide us through these murky waters of distrust or something that’s gone before or something that’s gone wrong or even just restarting if it’s a new team, new leader, etc. who has picked up something that’s maybe not been well looked after previously. So it’s that kind of stuff that I’m really excited about getting into and doing more of, and pretty hopeful that that’s the, that’s the direction.

Murray Guest  

Yes, yeah, I love it. I love I honestly, I love your hope for your humanity. And I totally hear you, I think with some leaders that are coming through that aren’t quite there yet. Totally hear you there. They’re also, I really liked the way you talked about that professional respect. And that professional well known, that you’re out there, you are making a difference. And creating a space where people are having those conversations they avoid. I like to think that the culture changes one conversation at a time. And it’s about how we create that space those conversations to happen. And I can hear how passionate you are about that. Now I’m going to give you the opportunity to have access to a sky writer and the sky writer is going to put a message around the Earth and everyone can see everyone can read it can’t be too big, you know, planes have got to get around. But what is your message you would love everyone to see to help them in life?

Steph Clarke  

Something I really live by and funnily enough, I thought about this just a couple of days ago. So good question. Something I really live by and I think would be good for others to take note of given some of the conversations I have with people around what they’re doing, what they’re happy with, what they’re not happy with, would be Regret the things you do, not the things you don’t.

Murray Guest  

Oh, I like that a lot. I haven’t heard that before. But I can really feel that because I think quite often, people can, I guess like the FOMO isn’t it, getting into that regret I didn’t do this. But you don’t know. So why regret?

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. And I think that some of the biggest life decisions I’ve made, you know, moving to another country, changing jobs, all of those things, that’s generally the litmus test I use is, am I going to regret doing this more than not doing it? Yeah. And the answer is, has inevitably been been yes or no, or whatever. And has made those decisions incredibly easy.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. I love it. And I think that’s a really powerful, simple framework to help people with stress with some of those decisions, and how to manage that and get, you know, focus back in what’s the decision in front of you? And, yeah, love it.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah, I think it comes down as well, you know, not this would necessarily go into Sky Writing. Because we would run out of sky very soon, there is a thing around knowing, knowing what a good life looks like to you, and knowing what good experience of life looks to you. And you know, who’s involved in that, what’s involved in that, what that looks like from all the different facets of life. And I tend to think of it as one big kind of melting pot rather than necessarily these like, weird sort of burners or silos or whatever that people tend to nurture, and think of as life and work and the family and whatever, it’s to me, it’s just all kind of mixed into one big old life. Yeah. But the, the thing is, for me, it’s going well, I know, for me a good life is one of experience, and one of not getting to my 150 years that I’m going to live, my deathbed, and think intermittent fasting Murray tell you what, it’s gonna keep me living forever. That’s a whole other podcast. Anyway, we’re getting to my deathbed or whatever, plus 100 age that is, and thinking, Oh, I wish I’d done this thing, which at the time seemed really big and scary, but really wouldn’t have been that big a deal. Because a lot of the time, I think it’s also I generally feel that most things you can get out of in some way.

Murray Guest  

That’s another podcast there as well. Okay, so I’ve absolutely loved chatting to you. I’ve loved your energy. I love your enthusiasm. I love that you go in places and have those conversations need to happen that don’t, just like I do. So. I’ve really connected with you on that. And, and just hearing about your journey and what you’ve done in the past, not just the last 10 years, but the last year, it’s been beautiful. Thank you for agreeing to come on here and have this chat. And I always ask where’s the one best place people can find you online? 

Steph Clarke  

LinkedIn. 

Murray Guest  

On LinkedIn. Okay. So we’ll make sure that is in the show notes. They can track you down there, wishing you all the success in the next 10 years. Based on the past 10 years, it’s going to be awesome for you as well. I can see it So Steph, thank you so much. 

Steph Clarke  

Thanks very much.

Episode 49 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Mel Kettle

In this episode I chat with Mel Kettle, where she shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Hi, Mel, welcome to the heading into the roaring 20s podcast. Great to have you. How are you? 

Mel Kettle  

I’m great. Thank you so much for inviting me to be a guest. It’s such a pleasure to be a guest and not the host for once. 

Murray Guest  

Yes, I know exactly how you feel. And I love the chance to get to meet people doing amazing work like yourself and you are a strategic communication expert. Can you tell us a bit more about what that entails. 

Mel Kettle  

So I work with senior leaders and teams, and sometimes with emerging leaders and aspiring leaders, to help them understand how to communicate more effectively. And in my mind, effective communication needs to have clarity, compassion, and conviction. And if you’re missing one of those three things, you’re going to really struggle to get your message out and understood. 

Murray Guest  

So I talk to a lot of the leaders I work with about clarity and how that’s missing in so many areas of the way that they’re leading. So I can get clarity. And I understand that how important that is. Because there seems to be a murkiness quite often in not just communication, but in expectations, I can see in people. The other one, so you talk about conviction. Tell me a bit more about that one.

Mel Kettle  

So you need to believe your message. And if you don’t believe it, then how can you expect other people to believe it and come along with you on whatever the journey is that you’re wanting to take them on.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, okay, and compassion. What about that?

Mel Kettle  

We need love in business. And we need love and kindness and gratitude and compassion encompasses all of those things. And if you’re not, you know, if you don’t show empathy, if you don’t have an understanding of what people are going through. And if you’re not just, you know, a good person, then again, why would people follow you and listen to you and do what you want them to do?

Murray Guest  

I’m even thinking at the simplest. Are you putting yourself in the other person’s shoes when you communicate?

Mel Kettle  

Absolutely. That’s essential. Empathy in business and empathy and communication is so critical. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

And how long have you been doing this work for?

Mel Kettle  

So I started my practice back in 2006. And before that, I worked for the Queensland Government, I worked as the Marketing Manager for the Brisbane Festival, the performing arts festival. And before that, I worked as a conference organizer, organizing, mostly medical and legal conferences, but also a stint running all the events for Microsoft in Australia. And we did 300 events in that year. And if I never have to organize another event, I’ll be happy.

Murray Guest  

That is a lot. Wow. So part of these, these sessions are reflecting on the past decade. But before we jump into the past decade, because we’re going back a little further there, organizing all those events, you must have had some insights into people, into organization, into planning. When you think about all those events that you did organize, can you share any lessons with us?

Mel Kettle  

I think the biggest thing that taught me was to be organized and to manage my time, particularly well, actually, both jobs, I did that kind of work for about four years. And there were always multiple events on the go. There were always a whole range of different personalities and different clients. And you had to be good at, I guess, a little bit of ESP, predicting what was needed before people realized that they needed it so that you could solve their problems for them. But also listening, listening was critical and observing and asking questions, so that you could have the right event at the right time with the right bums on seats. And that was in the 90s. So it was really when the internet was just starting. I remember, I first started organizing conferences in 1996. And in 1997, we got the internet in our office. And that was a bit of a game changer. And then towards the end of it might have been mid 1997, we went to an online registration system. And I still remember the expression of complete joy on our conference managers face when 50 registrations downloaded or almost automatically, and took the same length of time as it normally would take her to manually input one registration. Yeah, well, yeah, that was just phenomenal.

Murray Guest  

And I mean, of course, things like other online systems, and social media and all those things that have happened since you do it back when you used to do it. I’m sure it was a lot tougher.

Mel Kettle  

It was just different. And it was what you knew at the time. So I remember when, you know, when I was organizing conferences, we would have to print brochures to promote the event that we would then have to post out to our mailing list. I remember thinking, this is just you know, this is a bit of work, but it’s what you have to do because it’s the only option. But older event managers would say to me, I remember when we didn’t have photocopiers, and so we had to type things in triplicate, and I was there going, Oh my God. So, carbon paper, so you’ve got your copies, and on typewriters and not word processors and computers. So then, but now when I talk to event managers and say, well, we didn’t have the internet for the first bit of time I was doing it. And we definitely didn’t have any social media. And they look at me and they say, How did you promote your events? And then when I say, we didn’t really even have mobile phones, they’re like, how did you communicate with each other, and it blows people’s minds. But that was only 25 years ago, like, it’s not a long time ago, when you look at history. And so the way that we communicate, the way we communicate from, from a physical withdrawal perspective has changed quite a bit, but the essence, you still need clarity, you still need conviction, you still need compassion, to ask, listen and observe. None of those things have changed. No, no, no. If anything, that’s even more important now. Because we’re bombarded with so many more messages.

Murray Guest  

And leads us beautifully to the past decade, you know, 2009, through 2019, you’ve been running your business, you’ve been helping people getting their message out with conviction, with compassion, with clarity. What are some of the lessons that you think you’ve learned over that period of time?

Mel Kettle  

I’ve been thinking about this 2000, this decade, I guess, 2010 started out for me, turning 40. So that was a bit of a ohhh what’s happening now. But then shortly after that, my mum died. And then shortly after that, my dad died. And it was both really unexpected. And what struck me and still just amazes me every day is how kind and incredible people can be when you’re going through a difficult time. And, you know, it was the kindness of obviously, my friends and my family who really helped my immediate family through that awful time. But it was also the kindness of strangers. And people and the kindness of my clients like I didn’t work for about after my mother died, I just didn’t work for six months, I had a complete and utter, I just was so embedded in grief, I couldn’t do anything. And my clients were just so amazing, because I emailed them all and said, This is what’s just happened. And because it was unexpected, I was in the middle of a whole bunch of different projects. And I said, I’m not available for at least three weeks, and maybe not even longer. And they so many of them came back and said, when you’re ready, we’re here. You know, let us know if we what we can do to help you. And it was incredible. And those kindnesses. It really made me it really made me realize how business can be when you’ve got people when you’ve got love. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Murray Guest  

You mentioned love before. And you talked that, you know, love can show up in so many different ways. And to have clients like that. Where showing that true care for somebody else. Yeah. And that flexibility, I’m sure they showed you at that time as well.

Mel Kettle  

Enormous flexibility. And then when I came back to them and said, Look, I’m not actually going to be working until the end, until the new year, because I just need time to process this. And I had a holiday planned and I had other things going on, and just their willingness to accept that. And then to be there, when I did come back, like I didn’t lose a single client over that period of time. And that was amazing to me.

Murray Guest  

Well, I think that that’s beautiful, around that kindness from them. But I also think it’s a reflection of you and the type of person you are in the way you work with your businesses. So I can get into that already, just from our conversation. So I mean, my father passed away a few years ago, and I feel how you’re you would have been then because it’s not that long ago for myself. And I know what that was like.

Mel Kettle  

But I think the other thing is, I was really honest, and I’d always been very honest with all of my clients and with everybody I’d do business with. And I’ve always been, some people would say an oversharer. But I just think the more you know about me, then the better our relationship is going to be. And the more likely we’re going to work out quickly whether we’re the right people to work together or not. And I’ve got some clients, I’ve got a client who said to me a little while ago, I’m having a lot of issues with one of my staff members. There’s something going on in her world, and I don’t know what it is, and she’s not trusting me with what’s happening. And I said, Okay, well, I’m having coffee with her. Let me see what I can elicit and encourage her to have conversation with you. Later that night, I went out for dinner with this with the same woman and she said to me, she was just telling me all about this personal crisis, I guess that she was going through, in her personal world and I said, do any of your staff know about this? And she said, Well, no. And I said, Well, how do you expect them to be open and honest with you when you’re not sharing what’s happening in your world which is rocking your world in a really bad way, with them. And I said you haven’t got to tell them the nuts and bolts and all the gory details, but you should at least say to them, these are the key highlights of what’s happening in my world right now or the lowlights. And this is why I’m a little bit distracted. Because the more you know each other, the more you’ll work more effectively together. Because people do business with people they know love and trust.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think it links beautifully to your key messages and compassion and understanding each other. And we can’t lose sight of the fact that we people, and that, you know, we connect with people, and we understand it and build that those relationships. So I mean, certainly great feedback to her saying, how can you expect someone open up to you, if you’re not opening up to them?

Mel Kettle  

That’s exactly, then you don’t need to. And you know, I do a lot of work with people to help them expand their digital footprint, and to be more active on LinkedIn in particular. And I say to my clients, you need to be sharing personal stories, and you need to be sharing parts of your personality. And it always surprises me when people come back to me and say, but I keep my personal world and my work world completely separate. Yeah. And I just think, how do you do that? Like, how do you show up at work and be a genuine, true person that shows your genuine personality when you keep them separate?

Murray Guest  

Well, they’re not, are they.

Mel Kettle  

And so, you know, I then say, you don’t have to, you know, share the intimate details of your personal life, but you should at least be sharing snippets, so that people can get a sense of who you are, what you stand for, what your values are. Because if you don’t demonstrate your values in particular, and not just talking about them, but how do you live them, then younger generation aren’t going to want to work for you, younger generation aren’t going to want to buy from you, they won’t want to volunteer with you or invest with you. Because they don’t, they won’t sense this connection. And it’s interlocking values, which is what they’re looking for.

Murray Guest  

So if a leader or if anybody is really resisting that opening up, to be themselves and to share a bit about themselves to you know, build those relationships, but they’re really resisting that what do you think is a really good way to help them start to move that forward? And to shift that?

Mel Kettle  

I help them, I try to engage them in a conversation about even what they’ve done on the weekend. Did they spend time with family? Did they spend time with friends? Do they go see a movie? Did they play sport? Did they watch sport? Did they just relax and do nothing? And how can they find little stories in there every day that talk about things that are of value and of interest to other people. And it might be you know, with some of my clients who are really resistant, I say just what is one hobby or one thing that you do that you’re happy to talk about publicly that’s not work related. And it might be they love to bake, it might be that they’re really into football, it might be that they I don’t know, something that’s personal, but doesn’t talk about, their their partners, their kids, their grandkids, that sort of thing. Sometimes it’s they might talk about their pets, but you have to find something that you can share. That’s not solely work related for people to get a better sense of who you are as an entire person. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

I think that sort of stepping into that a little bit, because I think that’s the fear, isn’t it? People think, Oh, I have to open up the whole sort of, my whole life. And it’s actually just about let’s just provide a little bit, a little bit that I went and saw the new spiderman film or something, whatever it might be. 

Mel Kettle  

Yeah. You don’t have to say, I had a really shit weekend because I had a fight with my wife. And I think we’re getting a divorce. And my stepson hates me and bla bla bla bla. But you could say, it wasn’t my best weekend. And I’m really looking forward to, you know, but a highlight of my weekend was, I don’t know, I might have read five chapters of a book that I really want to read, or I went for a walk on the beach, or, you know, there’s always something that isn’t going to open your soul up too much if you don’t want to.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. I think that is such a powerful thing. And you sort of hinted that there also about social media, and I think the the way of communicating online, but even the thing that stands out to me is when I catch public transport, and I’m on the train, and everyone sits on their devices, and they’re just they’re looking at it and there’s not that connection. So I think, do you do you think and I’m thinking this that people losing that ability to have that connection to have those conversations? Because there’s so much?

Mel Kettle  

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, there’s research that has come out of the UK recently that says one in eight people is addicted to their smartphone. And not only are we addicted to our smartphones, we look at them, we pick them up about 58 to 60 times a day. Most of us spend between four and five hours staring at the screen on our phone not and that’s not looking at computer screens or other screen devices that’s just on our phone. But when when it comes to things like Netflix, Reed Hastings, who’s the CEO of Netflix came out two years ago, at an investor meeting and said, our biggest competitor is sleep. People need to sleep. And that’s why they turn off Netflix.

Murray Guest  

Well, yes, you do need to sleep. Yeah, wow.

Mel Kettle  

So that, that I do, I do think, you know, we’re so connected in terms of a technological perspective. But in terms of an interpersonal relationship perspective, we are so disconnected today. And I think that’s a massive problem for our society, particularly Western society, where technology and phones and Netflix and binge watching. And you know, we read books on Kindles, and it’s so easy now to spend time staring at a screen that we forget the art of opening our mouths and talking and having conversations and picking up the phone to make a phone call to have a conversation as opposed to a text or a Facebook message or a WhatsApp message.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I’ve started recently, I’d say in the last year, a few of my clients do this, they leave the recorded message. And it’s that recorded message, as opposed to texting. And the feeling I’m getting is, it’s actually quite a nice way because I’m actually getting some of the emotion in the message. And it’s actually easier and quicker to do as well, what are your thoughts on that way of communicating?

Mel Kettle  

Look, I think it depends on the individual. Personally, I find it far quicker to read a quick text message than it is to listen to an audio recording or watch a video of somebody. So my voicemail actually says, I’m really bad at listening to messages, send me a text, give me a bit of information about what it’s about. And then I can either, and then I’ll call you back when I’ve got some time to have a conversation that isn’t just, you know, me on the fly. But also I can respond to a text really quickly and say thanks for your message, I’m in a meeting, or I’m traveling all day, or I’m not available until this time, can I call you then?

Murray Guest  

I think you’re hinting at something here, which I don’t think enough people do. And that’s actually understanding how someone wants to be communicated with, what are their, what’s their preference, because some prefer tech, some prefer, you know, on the fly, some prefer voicemail, or whatever it is, but actually start to have the conversation about how you want to have the conversation.

Mel Kettle  

Exactly. And one of the first questions I ask all of my clients is how do you like to be communicated with? Is it okay? Like, do you like email? Do you like phone calls? Are you happy if I text you? Because if I’ve just got a quick question, or if I’m sending you something that needs a quick response, I don’t want to rely on you looking at your emails at six o’clock at night, if I’m sending at nine o’clock in the morning. Can I send you a quick text to say, if you have a chance today? And this is what I’ve just done? And or do you hate text messages? Or you know, do you prefer to be communicated with through LinkedIn messaging? Or, you know, what is it so that I can adapt my communication style to suit your needs? Because you’re the client. And by the way, don’t leave me a voicemail because I’m never going to listen to it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I guess make make it very clear. Again, bring that clarity. Now, I want to jump ahead on thinking about the next decade. We’ve talked a bit about the past, you know, as we’re about to hit the next decade in a not that far off. Roaring 20s are coming. So now what do you reckon is and what are some of your hopes do you think for this next decade?

Mel Kettle  

Hopes to me personally? Or?

Murray Guest  

Anything you’re happy to share?

Mel Kettle  

I’ve just been sitting down over the last week, I guess, to think about what I want for the next 12 months and a little bit more broadly about the next decade. Oh my god I’ll be in my 50s in the next decade. That’s a bit scary.

Murray Guest  

That’s okay, I think I’m gonna get there before you, by the way. 

Mel Kettle  

When are you?

Murray Guest  

In two years. Two years.

Mel Kettle  

You’re 50 in two years? Oh my god, I’m 50 in about six weeks. So scary, scary. I think for me, I really believe in doing what you love. And the last a lot of the last 10 years I like I love my job. I love the people I work with. I’m really particular about who I work with, because I want to make sure that I do love them. And that they love me as well. And so I think more of that. More of my next book is coming out in the new year. Hopefully I’ll write two or three or four more, five more or six more after that. Lots more speaking. Lot’s more, just I’m curious to see what the changes with communication and technology are going to bring. Because even though I think we I love technology, don’t get me wrong. I think we need to be more conscious about making decisions as to how we use it and when we use it so that you don’t just sit on the couch and think I’ll just have a quick look at Instagram. And an hour later, you’ll look up and go, what happened, where did that time go? How do we be more deliberate with how we use the technology? And how do we be more conscious of the relationships with people who we want to have stronger relationships with? I think for organizations, yes, AI and technology are replacing some people and some jobs. But I think that people to people, that human to human contact is always going to be critical. You just look at the response of people who call up a phone number, and there’s a robo person, yes, push this number for this, push this button for this, push this for this, people are pushing back and resistant to technology taking over people’s jobs in some of those ways, because you want to talk to a person, because it’s often a quicker and, and kinder. And then finally, I think kindness is going to play a far bigger role in the future. And I think we need to be more kind and more conscious of people who are struggling, because social isolation is increasing, loneliness is increasing. And not just with older people. But again, there’s research out of the UK that shows the fastest growing demographic of people that’s lonely are people in their 20s. And I’m fairly confident, a lot of that’s because we have relationships through our phones and, and our tablets and our computers and not in that face to face way. And when when you’ve got loneliness and social isolation, that’s leads to stress and anxiety and depression. And the number one cause of long term absence from work due to illness is depression, and anxiety. So what is it we can do as employers and as leaders in the workforce to make sure that our people feel cherished and valued and included in the work that we do, and in the organization and inclusiveness is essential? Yeah. And I think that that proactive sort of approach by leaders within organizations to show that kindness show people that they valued, that they appreciated that they needed, before it gets to the point that they’re, you know, needing to take a break, or that depression is happening, or that there’s mental, but being proactive and saying that upfront. And and, you know, being kind and being compassionate, doesn’t need to take time, and it doesn’t need to cost money. It can be as simple as saying, Good morning, how are you and actually listening, and having, you know. I was in a client’s office a few weeks ago, and I walked through the office, and one of her staff had a desk that was covered in Star Wars figurines, there must have been 60 of them in his cubicle. And it was pretty obvious by looking at that, even for someone who’s never seen a Star Wars movie, what he was into. And so it would be very simple to have a year’s worth of conversations with him, because you could just ask the question about a different figure. And every time you walk past or every morning or every evening, somebody else in that office had photos of that they had the half a dozen photo frames on their desks, and every photo frame had a picture of a different cat. So again, really obvious what that person is interested in, really easy to ask questions that are of relevance to that person, because you’ve just got to say, what are your cat’s names?

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And as a Strengths coach, so I do a lot of work with organizations and with leaders around strengths. And a key part of that is make is actually identifying what’s right about people rather than pointing out what’s wrong. The easy thing for some people to do is to point out, someone’s got pictures of cats, isn’t that silly. Or someone’s got figurines doesn’t that make them wrong, as opposed to I actually want to understand that about you, and connect with you. And then that person will feel much more connected as human to human and valued.

Mel Kettle  

Then when all else fails, you know, comment on somebody’s dress, or their shoes or their tie and pay them a small compliment. Because the lift that that gives people is ridiculous. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Now, Mel I’m gonna give you an opportunity, and I’m mindful of our time, we need to wrap up, but I’m going to give you an opportunity, I’m going to hire a sky writer who’s going to use some old technology, because we are talking about the 20s. And with that Sky writer they’re gonna put a message across the earth and everyone’s going to see that message. They can’t avoid it, they can’t miss it. This is your message out to everyone around the world. What is your message you would love to give to everybody to set them for success and just to set them in, in a path going forward?

Mel Kettle  

It’s really simple. Just be kind.

Murray Guest  

I feel that and you know what, at this time of year as we reflect on the year and some of the things in the media at the moment and some of the the separation and the you know, the the non inclusiveness that is going on I think if we can be more kind to everybody in all areas of our life, it would have such a ripple effect. 

Mel Kettle  

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Murray Guest  

Thank you. I love that it’s simple and so powerful. 

Mel Kettle  

Thank you. 

Murray Guest  

Where’s the best one place for people to find you online.

Mel Kettle  

So my website is Melkettle.com. And that’s got links to everything else. But from a social media perspective, LinkedIn and Twitter are my two favorite places. So if you just Google Mel Kettle I’ll be on the first half a dozen pages with my name, very convenient.

Murray Guest  

Good work from you, well done Mel. I love chatting to you, I love you know what you’re passionate about. And it’s something that I’m passionate about. And I’m learning from you about those, the key areas of communication and to make them more effective and to really connect with people to bring that love into work and that kindness. I’m looking forward to talking to you more. And I’m wishing you so much success in this next decade as well. So thank you so much for your time.

Mel Kettle  

Thank you so much for having me as a guest. It’s been great to chat to you and find out more about you as well. 

Murray Guest  

Great. Thanks, Mel. 

Mel Kettle  

Thanks, Murray. Bye.

Episode 48 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Brandon Miller

In this episode I chat with Brandon Miller, where he shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Welcome, Brandon, to the next episode of heading into the roaring 20s. Brandon Miller, you are the CEO of 34 Strong, published author, all around good guy. How are you?

Brandon Miller  

I’m doing great. Thanks. How are you Muz?

Murray Guest  

I’m good mate, life is good. It’s a beautiful time of the year. I do love the magic of Christmas. However, we don’t have the snow and the cool. We’ve got, you know, unfortunately fires and heat at the moment. But it is a beautiful time of the year connecting with family and friends. And I’m really loving these chats with everyone and connecting and reflecting on the past decade and what’s coming up for us. So thank you for your time. How’s your 2019 ending?

Brandon Miller  

Strong. Yeah, very strong. Yeah, it’s been a, it’s been a whirlwind year. In fact, at the end of the year, it just recently occurred to me, maybe even with your email that we were ending a decade.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I know. And it feels like that. It feels like the 2000s were just like, remember y2k and everything? And now it’s like, it’s 20 years ago. It’s like, it’s amazing. Yeah. Well, someone said to me that the years go faster. We’ve got kids and kids are great. That’s okay.

You’re gonna be hearing my puppies, which are going to be, she’s, she’s, she’s protesting.

Murray Guest  

Okay, that’s okay. But what I was gonna say someone said to me recently that the years seem to be going faster, because we’re more in that state of flow. And doing what we love.

Brandon Miller  

That’s a good comment.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Well, I’m embracing it. Yeah, that’s, because this year has gone like that. Yeah, so tell me when you think about the past decade, you know, 2009 through 2019? What are some standouts that we can take some time to reflect and celebrate, for you?

Well, I have to start with just my family. So going from being the parent of number seven, was born in 2010. And then my first grandson was born in 2017. So in that decade, became the father of our last of the tribe, also began the next generation. So that would have to be for us, the big marker, 25 years of marriage, in the midst of that we were able to celebrate. And then on top of that, we also had the opportunity to launch 34 strong. So the partnership with Gallup began in 2013, and has carried us forward in this decade.

Murray Guest  

That’s a that’s a lot of fantastic things happened in the past decade. I love that you started with family and I know family is such a key part of your life. As a father, when you think back of, and a grandfather, what what’s some of those lessons that really stand out to you?

Brandon Miller  

You know, I think as as a father, we had to learn as we write in our book, I guess what should be another big accomplishment in the decades is being published in a parenting book.

Murray Guest  

That is a beautiful accomplishment.

That was, that was a big deal. But I think, learning how to apply what I do professionally, to my home environment. And so for whatever reason it it came more natural in the professional space, helping others think about the strength of their direct reports in the workplace. And my own that I worked with, for bringing home was much more personal and much more intimate and being truthful, more difficult. Yeah, learning to stay in discovery mode and learning how to be fascinated with our kids and learning how to focus on what’s right with them more than what’s wrong, has been a really a decade’s long journey to bring us to this point.

Murray Guest  

I totally echo that point. And I think about the the experiences I’ve had in my corporate roles have the chance to develop professionally, and the training that I’ve provided people, and I think a lot of people in corporates get that opportunity. But we don’t get that as parents, I think about my own parents, and did they ever get the opportunity? Or was that available to them? To invest in what it means to be a parent and to learn and grow as a parent? I’m sure your your parents probably very similar didn’t get that chance. Whereas I know your book and your programs and are giving people that chance to do that. Yeah, I also agree it’s actually a bit more difficult when we bring those lessons home because there’s a whole different dynamic. And that’s in there, isn’t it? And I’ve actually had my daughter say to me, right now, Dad, I need a dad, not a coach.

And I think I think that’s a big part of just this learning process around if development starts in the home first, we are the primary mentors and coaches and teachers along with being the dad and we how do we balance those roles and bringing up those parts of us at the right time? I think is, I think it’s a lifelong journey. I mean, just with now adult kids, figuring out what they need from me, and probably more importantly, what they’ll accept. And what they’re willing to listen to is been quite the quite the process with them.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. What about 34 Strong, so you’ve done some amazing work, your business, since the launch in the past decade, when you reflect back on the growth and the impact of the business, what’s the things that stand out to you?

I think really getting to the point of understanding who we are, why we do what we do, and the way that we go about it. Because to go in and say, we’re going to transform a workplace sounds almost audacious and too hard for people to believe. But when we could help an organization realize that we’re going to get there by transforming the way their managers manage. So we set out as our goal to develop the best bosses within an organization. And then to those people, leaders, we tell them, our goal is to inspire you, to aspire to be the best boss someone’s ever had. Yeah, and talk to them through what that means and how transformative that is, for a person to have a great boss, and what that relationship can not only mean to their professional advancement, but just their personal life and the way that they live outside of the work and the great good that a boss can do. So I think getting to that clarity for 34. Strong. And, you know, with the with the goal that we want to, we want to develop globally recognized best workplaces. And so looking back in the seven years that we’ve existed, and having the opportunity to see both in some really, really hard workplaces here in the States, one of the worst workplaces a person could even imagine would be the Department of Motor Vehicles. I joke about that when I talk to clients. So if you think you’ve seen bad, no, let me tell you, but to even watch very difficult workplaces become better, because bosses decided that they were going to take the challenge and try to really move the needle and so that have those accurate, measurable outcomes has been quite fulfilling.

Murray Guest  

I think about the DMV and my experience of the version here and that, that sense of disengagement, right. And that type because of the type of work that they’re doing. And unfortunately, the treatment, there’s this the cycle of how people are getting treated, I think when they go to the DMV, but you’re right, if we can change the culture, in that organization, or any organization similarly, you can change it anywhere, can’t you?

You can because you know when we think about the private sector that we get to work with, and they’re often family owned, legacy type businesses, so midsize companies that we get to spend time with. And I particularly enjoy working with Gen 234, all the way up to five, and to track and monitor the change. And when we think of the quantitative change the actual improvement in their profit, in their productivity, and decrease safety incidents and all that. But when we hear the qualitative change, I was talking to a CEO recently, and they said, so we just got your your Q 12 back and your score went up in all 13 categories, and you’ve moved into the top third percentage of companies in the world. So can you tell me what’s different. And he said, I’ll tell you what’s different. We were looking to acquire another company. And we made our offer to them. And it was below asking, and we were making our case as to why they wanted us to purchase them. So they came in and spent a day with our management committee, essentially the senior leaders of the organization. And at the end of the day, they walked out saying, There is something about you that we’ve never seen in another team. And they called it an aura, a kind of an aura about you, where you have this openness in this, this dialogue that just you’re trusting each other. And he said it’s so authentic. And he said, there would be a great example of a qualitative metric that he said I could point to as two years ago, before we started this work that would never have been said, of our management committee.

Murray Guest  

Isn’t that beautiful? And that’s the stuff that is so important and so valuable in corporates, but we, we can’t measure. It’s like measuring love, isn’t it?

It is and I think I think just that the reality that when we think of organizational realities, qualitative becomes actually more real to a person because it’s visceral, and it’s remembered. So quantitative is great. Did I get a bonus, did I achieve the goal, all those things that you know we can put our hands on and calculate out but when you get into how it made you feel, and the way that you’re left with an overall sense of the word that, you know, we like to use the word well being and you know, what does that mean that it’s well with you? Well, when you get into because I feel better and I feel different, I love it when people start to describe work, this is one of our, it’s the two big F words that we love to hear in an organization, that work has become fun. And the people have become like family. Yeah. And when we hear those two statements, it’s become fun. And the people are like my family. We know that it’s a transformed workplace. And those people’s lives outside of work have become, at least according to Gallup, three times better, three times better than where it was before.

Murray Guest  

I want to ask you, considering your journey as a business owner, and a business leader, what’s been some some lessons you’ve experienced in that journey over the past, you know, seven years.

You know, I think, being faithful to this idea that I’m not in business for the business to own me, I decided to go into business to have an opportunity to certainly provide for my family, but additionally, to have an impact. And I And what’s great about that opportunity, is I have a choice in where to spend my time. And it’s a fine line, because as a owner operator, as you know, Muz is that you can get yourself caught into the operation side, so much so that you’re not getting to do the things that caused you to want to go into business in the first place. And so I think learning that, adhering to that, and being a good student, and then I think the other reality that we figured out probably a year or two in and we actually started our company with this mindset, that we wanted to work with the people who we really wanted to work with, that we fit, we thought we could help. But early on, you pretty much say yes to whomever will give you money and learning how to tell the difference between good revenue and just earned money because it was necessary. Yeah, that transition has been really important for, I think, the health of our company, as well as our own quality of life.

Murray Guest  

I think and it’s an easy trap to get into. And I’ve been there certainly, in my own journey, as a business owner operator, of gotta put food on the table, versus what’s the work I really want to do. And actually comes even a little bit easier because it’s the work that is so inspiring, and it’s that you know, you’re connected to and you’re driven to do you got a purpose to do. Yeah, if we, if we can have everyone doing that. And I think even the bit that’s coming to my head right now, it’s as our as we are business owners, that we are living and breathing what we’re talking to organizations about. I want to think about the next 10 years. So we’ve just been through about the past 10. If we think about you know, 2020 to 2030, what do you reckon is some of those key things that are going to be happening in organizations and some of the trends that you think might be emerging?

You know, I think people as as we move further down this path, have recognized recognizing what it means to work for a great place and what it means to not work for a great place what it means to have a great boss, what it means to not have a great boss, because I don’t I don’t even know that we’ve caught on to quite the viral wave that this will engender. Because I think as we learn and we understand that people work for people, people don’t work for organizations, that that gravitation toward places that don’t just pay me well, but they treat me better. And they do that. And so I I think we’re going to watch organizations have to determine that part of their competitive plan needs to be the their developmental philosophy, their management, training and practices, really looking at becoming a best of whether it’s in their region, their city, their state, their you know, the world. Yeah, it will become very much a priority. So we’re, I’m already starting to see that and hear that, are prioritizing that movement, because they recognize what it’s doing internally to the to the pride and motivation and interest in, in retention, but just how it attracts talent, yeah, and brings people in. But I also see that that as the good become better. I think we’re in for some dark days. In other cases, I think having the movement of AI may diminish the human spirit and human contribution to an extent where people can be perceived as expendable, and, you know, they’re not as relevant and I don’t think people are going to take well to that, you know, it’s a revert back to the industrial age. Well, you’re just, you’re just here to fill the spot. And so I don’t, I don’t know that that’s gonna go as well as we might have, some might hope. And I hope that we, we see people adhering to really wanting to be their best and do their best.

Murray Guest  

I’d like to think it’s not going to be like that industrial age. But as we think about history repeating itself and as we get back into that, yeah, what does the next 10 years look like for you? 34 Strong, Brandon Miller, what are we going to see? What would you like to put out there that you’re going to hopefully achieve?

Well, I could say that we’ve thought a lot about human management, and the gap that we hope to fill. So I give this statistic when I speak to a room of CEOs. And it’s where I’ll ask the question, how many of your organization’s have a training program that will train your managers how to really work with their people really engage them really develop them really know how to do that? And it’s, it’s about 2%. Yeah, we’ll acknowledge this. And these are, these are, these are micro companies, these are companies of about 100 employees up sometimes as many as 1000. And by most counts, that’s not a micro company anymore. These are 20 to 50, the as high as $500 million a year brands, and they have almost nothing for this middle level. So as we’ve started to recognize that opportunity, with a gap in the market, we’ve really shifted to say how can we help and so our goal is, in the next decade to train 100,000 managers is what we hope to accomplish. I’d be thrilled if we exceeded that. But I think that’s our opportunity to equip. And honestly, this is interesting every time Murray, we do a manager training, we are going to have some of those managers in the room tell us that they are in the wrong job. So I hope to liberate the good ones to become amazing, great ones. And I hope to equally liberate the individual contributors who are dressing up as managers who really belong back in that space where they were amazing. That’s why they got promoted in the first place. They were amazing at what they did, let him go back and be that person. So hope to see both happen through that process and raise the raise the bar what it means to be a great boss.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I unfortunately, I’ve had that conversation way too many times where I’m talking to a manager and they’ll say something along the lines of, we’re a bit different other organizations, we’ve promoted people, because they were good at their job, and we haven’t really trained and support them. And I say, actually, unfortunately, that’s too common.

Brandon Miller  

That’s, that’s almost everyone. Yeah, not unique at all.

Murray Guest  

But and I think the the point you raise is really good if people start to realize that this thing of managing people, having those conversations, inspiring people, coaching people, caring about your people isn’t right for you. And you’re more suited for your talents, your skills somewhere else. That’s a great awareness to have.

It is. And I think, you know, there are amazing salespeople that have no business being sales managers, and amazing technicians who have no business, go back and be an engineer, go back and be the brilliant person who is helping us with our technology, or, or you’re the physician trying to be the chief, but you don’t belong there. Yeah, go be a brilliant surgeon, go do what it is that you do. And I think, I think understanding at a senior leader level within the organization, that if you esteem the track of management, so people leadership, as high as you esteem, the track of process or project leadership, you will see people thrive in both roles.

Murray Guest  

That’s a really good point. And I’d actually even say it the other way around as well, where we actually treat process leaders with the same level of respect and importance as the people leaders, because I think quite often people think they need to go into these people leadership roles to increase salary, increase their level within the organization. Yeah, it’s true. Yeah. Now, you obviously published a fantastic book with your beautiful wife this year. 

Brandon Miller  

I might just have a copy right here.

Murray Guest  

Oh, well, good, man. Product placement is important. There’s got to be a few more books in you. What does that look like going forward in the next decade?

So we’re working on two right now. The first one is called Incredible Parent. So in, in play to their strengths. We talked about the need for parents to know what their strengths are, that are unique to parenting. So there’s several assessments out there that can tell you what your values are. Clifton Strengths is a great job of identifying your talent 34 themes and Myers Briggs can give you a type of your personality and DISC can do something similar. But knowing what you do as a parent is something we found was a gap. And so the Incredible Parent has been in production for a while now to get itself to a reliable standpoint, and that’s going through validation. And so that book is being written and the assessment is online. It’s free currently, because we’re in beta by January 21 when the book will be published and released, the assessment will be out there. And then right behind it six months later, we will publish Incredible Kids. So this is a space where we identified that for young ones, specific three to 10s, that outside of just learning how to see strengths and try to identify them, there wasn’t a way to objectively assess it through a psychometric assessment. And so we developed something where, knowing that the strengths will move, because children brains are pretty malleable, and they’re gonna go a lot of ways, but you can, you can identify what what some researchers and scientists are calling core strengths. So the ones that are really innate, genetically coded these are, these are part of who they are, came with package, and knowing how to, to develop those without trying to perhaps have the child become someone or not. So those two will come in 21. But after that, I gotta tell you that I am very interested in writing a management book. So my partner Darren and I, 34 strong have had that in the back burner for enough time. And I really want to get something out there. I mean, the playful title right now is ban bad bosses, is, you know, just this idea of, let’s, let’s get very serious about what bad bosses do to good people. Yeah, and whether they know they’re doing it or not, but put it out there and really talk about in the book. Conversely, what does it mean to be outstanding to be the best boss, you could be?

Murray Guest  

I want to go back to the parenting one first, because I think that is so valuable. And I love that you have developed the program, so parents can understand where their strengths lie. And for parents to understand where their partner’s strengths and approach might lie. So that it can actually bring back the joy in parenting. And the way we approach that, the way we raise our children, the way we might discipline, the way we might approach them through a completely different way, and bring back that joy and reduce the stress. And I think there’s obviously some great links there to how people show up at work. Because if you’re having that stressful time raising your children at home, and the impact that has on the home environment that also impacts how you shop at work everyday as well. So for sure, that is I know, it’s a great program, and it’s got some great assessment tools in there. I’ve done the assessment, it is fantastic. That book is so well needed. I’m excited about that. 

I’ll tell you that because with it is you and I’ve talked in the past, the initiative to certify coaches who are equipped and it’s not just coaches, it’s coaches and ministers and teachers, administrators, counselors, and we just set out to do our early adopter. And we’ve, as of today’s recording, about 80 coaches have gone through, and we’ll get to about 100. But our mission, if we can see, you know, the number hit past 1000 coaches that are certified to do this, and in 10 years get to 10,000 of them. I think by that point, we’re now cascading down. This idea of look, parenting isn’t something you have to do alone, parenting is not something that you have to try to just figure out. And you don’t have to lean on the parenting experience that you had good or otherwise, yeah, you don’t have to, you can you can really advance this. And as I would say about management, be really the best parent you can be. So I think, for Analyn, and I have this, which was I guess a side hustle that has grown into something far beyond that. Our passion, our mission to change the world, one family at a time. It’s been just just a joy, to experience others coming along, saying that’s my passion as well, that’s going to be my business model. And though that probably won’t be ours, and I think we’re going to have partners that do most of that work. We can’t help but just love and appreciate the opportunity to to give tools to people to use effectively in that regard.

Murray Guest  

So make sure I share the links to the the assessment and to the program and to coaches out there that want to know a bit more to anyone who’s just saying that is interested. I also look forward to sitting down with you in 2030. And talking some numbers because we’re talking you know, 100,000 people impacted, 100,000 managers, we’re talking about 10,000 coaches changing families lives, books, banning bad managers or bad bosses, I think, oh, yeah, that’s definitely needed as well. So and you’ve got, obviously you and Darren, you’ve got a wealth of experience to draw on with those organizations you’ve partnered with as well. So and part of this conversation is putting it out there putting out to the universe and making sure that into the world that these things that we’re talking about are going to be out there and taking place so I’ll love these, these goals you’ve got my friend and the impact you’re making.

Thank you, Murray. And I think for my wife and I, and all the wonderful people we work with, I feel like going into the, I love the roaring 20s, you know, just putting that image back up, because I feel like for some of us, we’re coming in with a roar and expect to really, you know, ramp up and take off and in, in such a more impactful way than perhaps the 1920s. Right? Yeah, for global good and global benefit and seeing just dramatic change in that regard.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I know, I’m hoping so as well. And I’m really excited about what this next decade holds for just humanity in lots of ways. And when there’s people like you and Analyn and your business doing the type of work you do, it is actually changing the conversations people are having over the dinner table, and over the boardroom as well. That’s right. Now I’m going to give you the chance to hire a sky writer, and this is old school technology. But this sky writers flying around the earth and it’s a message that everyone can see and hear. What’s that message that you’d love to give to everyone?

So if I had a skywriter, I’d probably want to keep it somewhat brief so people could see it. Yeah. Because I can I can extend a message out far beyond what what a skywriter do. But that’s a great image, I think. I think the first message that I would love for people to hear is believe you can because I think I think there’s so much out there in the world of people starting off with negativity. I don’t know if I can I or I can’t, won’t. Yeah. And I think I think this opportunity to genuinely believe you have been endowed with amazing talent. And you’ve learned a lot along the way. And your failures didn’t disqualify you, they’ve actually qualified you to step forward and learn. Because next to believe you can, another phrase I would love to say is failure is not final. And that when not to have plenty of fail, and perhaps fail big. That may have just qualified you for the next round in a whole lot better condition than you would have been because failure humbles us studies as it teaches us that if we can learn from our mistakes and grow, then I believe that we become more of who we were intended to be.

Murray Guest  

I love both of those. And I’ll let you have two, no one else. But you can have two. Well, I think they go together and that they’re very powerful messages. Mate, I want to thank you for your time today. It’s been a great conversation. I love sharing your knowledge, your wisdom and your experiences, those lessons from the past decade and and putting out there the great work that’s coming up for you. Analyn and the business. So it’s been awesome chatting, where’s the best place online for people to connect with you? Is it 34 strong.com? Or where else we’d like to send people.

So for business, it’s 34strong.com for what we do with families, incrediblekidsmovement.com Yeah, it really is a place where people can find assessments and they can find other other opportunities, whether it’s for coaching, or it’s even learn how to start your own coaching practice around this idea. So those two, and then I would say a third Analynbrandon.com. It has a lot to do with just our work in our books and some of about our story and some of our speaking.

Murray Guest  

Fantastic. I will make sure all those links are there for people to check them out and see the wealth of great work that you’re doing with organizations and with families and coaches. So again, thanks so much for your time, great chatting, have an amazing rest of the year and bring on the roaring 20s.

Brandon Miller  

Here we come. 

Episode 47 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Zach Lohrisch

In this episode I chat with Zach Lohrisch, where he shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Hey, Zach, welcome to the podcast as we’re heading into the roaring 20s, reflecting on the past decade. My friend, how you been?

Zach Lohrisch  

I’ve been really well, thanks for asking, what about you? 

Murray Guest  

Yeah, been great mate, just got back from a bit of a family trip, had some fun. And now looking forward to this next decade, and I’m loving these chats with different people about what life’s been like for them and some of those lessons that are coming out and sharing those. But I know that you’ve had a bit of a journey in the past decade as well. When you reflect on that decade, we’re going to explore that and see what that’s been like. But just recently, what have you been up to?

Look working hard. Obviously, you know, I think work is something that a lot of people sort of roll their eyes at, but it’s a really necessary thing. And I love work. So work was probably a big focus for me. I was you know, I’m also training, training hard as well. So I completed my first triathlon, very big achievement for me, not a good runner. So getting that done, as you know, was was really proud to get that done, too. So, it’s been training hard, working hard.

Murray Guest  

Well done on completing that triathlon, I think there’s not enough of celebration and recognition of each other and ourselves. So I’m glad that you’ve you bring that up, because that is a big achievement. Do you have plans for more in 2020?

I do. I do. I’ve got some leave planned in February. So I’m planning to come back and hit another one sometime after that. So just, you know, I thought I’d do one but the competitive spirit in me just comes out. Now I just want to see if I can beat that time. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, that that, you want to get that competitive spirit, but not so much that it’s going to burn you out, where next thing you’re enrolling in like 20 triathlons next year or something.

That’s right. That’s right. But I think it’s also about how you measure yourself. And I think a healthy measurement of self and healthy competitiveness is really good. So for me, it’s just about could I do that better? If I did it, you know, twice a year or something? Could I do it a little bit better every time? I think that’s a, that’s a nice, healthy way to direct my competitiveness.

Murray Guest  

Awesome. Awesome. And now, just just to help me understand, and maybe some of our listeners, say you are a crossfitter. How did CrossFit help or hinder the whole triathlon experience?

Zach Lohrisch  

Yeah, fantastic. Well done. Well done. That is. I’m inspired, it makes me think about what could I achieve in that realm next year, swimming is far from anything I can do. So we can talk about that later. Now. Your bio… energetically collecting experiences. When you say that, what does that look like for you? And that leads us to think about what you’ve been collecting in the past 10 years?

I think having a good like foundation of general fitness, which is what CrossFit is about, constantly varied, functional movement performed at high intensity. And what that really means is it’s movements that we do every day. So can you lift, can you throw something over your shoulder? Can you you know, squat down and pick something off the ground, those functional kind of movements. So having a baseline of fitness makes it really easy to start from, but terrible runner, so I had to work really hard on getting better at run technique. And so there’s been, you know, techniques, stuff that had to sort out. But definitely a baseline of fitness makes it all a lot easier. And I was able to and just to focus on the specific technique of running and riding that I didn’t have yet.

Yeah, I think that was a really challenging thing to think about as to how to like, summarize who you are, and what you do, in three words, or so. And the reason I select the I chose to say energetically collecting experiences is one because the thing that lights up my energy is a new experience. I’m a learner, number one talent, and it’s something I know my whole life. And when you’re a learner collecting a new skill, a new experience, a new challenge, it just lights up your energy. So I think it’s one of those things that what comes first, chicken or egg, I get the energy from collecting new experiences, but it also drives my energy to go do more. And so those sorts of things, especially over the last, you know, 10 years, drives me to travel all around the world, my wife and I love to travel, and not just traveled for the sake of traveling, but travel so you can experience something totally different, totally new, and in career and otherwise, it inspires me to keep challenging myself and find different areas where I could add value, learn new new skills and different things. And that’s certainly been the case over the last couple of years in career and then in fitness and health and wellness, generally, it’s another area of my life where I can apply. So it’s the theme, energetically collecting experiences a theme that you know, transcends every day.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I relate to that, you know, the inspired energy podcast is all about that energy that we get from each other. You’ve always inspired me when we catch up and we connect and you get me thinking about what am I doing? How can I do more of that? And I sort of get that internal motivation. So you certainly give that off. You’re not just collecting it, you’re sort of projecting as well. So I think that is a beautiful part of who you are. Now, when you think about those parts, you know the past decade, you know 2009 through 2019 I know you’ve done some travel, you’ve done a few things, but business, some stuff that you’d love to share that really stands out to you that just let’s celebrate. Let’s recognize right now.

Yeah, I think, yeah, lots has happened, been a massive 10 years for me. I’ve had, you know, seven different roles in a couple of different organizations, you know, probably made a ton of mistakes, but hopefully not too many of them twice in the last 10 years, like just sneaking into the edge of the last 10 years, I met my wife and we got together and got married. So that’s like, probably one of the biggest highlights of the 10 years to have and I think we’ll we’ll call it 10 years, next year, I think, or this year, next year.

Murray Guest  

So you should know that mate, just letting you know, as a person that’s also been married 11 years, you need to know that.

It’s 10 years this year, like 2009 when we first sort of met. So I guess, you know, it fits within the ambit of 10 years. Yeah. So that’s a massive thing, I think, I think a lot of the time, maybe toxic masculinity or whatever it might be, prevents us from, from celebrating maybe those things that might not be seen to be that, you know, masculine or whatever, but I’m stoked to be a husband, it’s one of the best roles that I play and the great part of my life.

Murray Guest  

I’m with you, mate. Tammy, and I’ve been married 11 years this year. And in those 10 years, our boy turned 10 this year. And it’s just honestly, you’re right, you when you pick someone and they pick you and you make that commitment to be together. It’s honestly one and I know that you and your partner, your wife, are best friends and the travel you’ve done and shared experiences as well. And that that alignment is so important.

Zach Lohrisch  

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And truly my best friend and, you know, closest companion, you know, it’s just one of the it’s just the greatest gift that life could ever give you. It’s just to have someone to share it with. So yeah, massive, massive thing for me.

Murray Guest  

So from a business sense, in a corporate sense, and some of those roles you’ve had in the past 10 years, you said seven different roles. What do you think are some of those lessons that really stood out to you, as you’ve been through that career journey?

Yeah, I think I think we’ve been seeing this trend for a while now. But it’s evident more and more, more and more recently, and that’s that whole idea that this idea of command and control management is is gone, it doesn’t work, what the people that are bringing to the workforce now, what they’re expecting of managers and organizations, especially, is very different to what we would have expected, you know, years and years ago. If you consider maybe someone like myself that grew up in a time of mostly economic prosperity, we don’t have the same risk aversion that maybe our moms and dads had. And so you know, we’re expecting other things, we’re not just in a job just to be there for 30 years and, and collect the paycheck. That’s important too, but other things like purpose, and you know, contribution, making sure that you’re working for a company is, you know, ethical, whatever that definition is for you. Yeah, those things are so much more important now than they used to be. And I think, if we see the last 10 years, there’s a real shift. And I think we can see that accelerating over the next 10 years as well.

Murray Guest  

I heard a quote a little while ago. And I’d love to get your perspective on this. I can’t remember who said it, you might know. But it was something along the lines of we’ve got table tennis tables in the lunchroom, yet, we don’t actually empower our people and actually don’t really give them constructive feedback and recognition. It’s like some of those tokens of you know, like casual Fridays, and table tennis tables and drinks on a Friday, whatever it might be. But we’re still at times missing that real people connection, which leadership is all about. And I think what I’m hearing from you is getting back into, you know, where it’s all about people.

Yeah, I 100% agree. And any, I think you’re right, any organization that’s making a lot of effort in things like casual Friday, and, and a ping pong table, whatever those things might be. They’re kind of almost like, expected these days. I mean, not that the new workforce or the workforce is entitled, it’s just that, well, every company can put a ping pong table and in every company can like, let you wear a casual shirt on a Friday. Some companies let you do that all the time. It it actually doesn’t mean a lot if the core of the role if you don’t have purpose in your role, or you can’t bring your strengths to that role. Things, I do talk a lot about flexible work. You know, it’s such a common thing to be able to do work from anywhere with the technology that we have that if as an organization you’re offering that it’s not a perk, it’s kind of a potential thing, these days so those things that we may have seen as perks or benefits in the past. And that would have meant that were, you know, on the edge of engagement or were edgy. Yeah, they kind of expected now, it’s really expectations there on the core of, you know, is this company ethical? Do I believe in their purpose? Can I buy into that? And can I contribute something soI get a sense of contribution? Am I going to get some good feedback and growth out of this? Those are the questions that our workforce are asking from us.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And do you think there’s going to be more of that going forward? Or do you think there’s some different trends we might start to see in the next decade? 

I think so, we’ll see more and more of it, I think the growing trend will be directed by our consumers as well, I think a lot of the time we focus, I mean, a lot of our work especially focuses on employees, but the consumer will drive this for us. And if you think about some really great stories in that space, but you know, consumers are choosing where they’re going to put their resources. And they’re going to choose to put resources in companies they believe in, just like workers are going to choose to invest their time in companies they believe in. And I love sharing the stories, because I had the pleasure of meeting a couple of really great entrepreneurs in this area. But you know, organizations like who gives a crap, and thank you, and these companies that are pulling together social enterprise, blending the, you know, charity organization with a, you know, for profit organization and moving them together, not only to those organizations run, you know, with the operation efficiency of a corporate or a for profit company, but they’re delivering a purpose or a meaning or an outcome that people really get behind. And there’s some real power and real momentum shifts in that industry. And I think a lot of organizations, if they stick to their guns of their traditional for profit model, will be disrupted by companies like that, that have an inherent purpose that people believe in, buy into, and will be willing to commit more to just because you know that that’s the meaning piece that people are searching for.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And I think if you look back, I can’t remember when they started, but it would have been in the last decade TOMS Shoes where you buy a pair of shoes, and then they give her shoes to someone in need. And you’re right, we’ve got companies like who gives a crap and Zambrero Mexican, where you go there and you order your Mexican burrito. And there’s the counter of the the meals that giving people in need.

I know in these industries, I think about fast food, it’s a saturated industry, there is fast food everywhere. In the traditional economic model, we would say, well, that’s gonna be a hard industry to break into. But if you think about the growth that Zambrero has been able to achieve in such a pretty short amount of time in an industry that is owned by some of the most powerful companies in the world, it’s truly impressive. And there’s so many examples. I think another one is 10 tree, an organization online that’s selling they plant trees for every you know, piece of item of clothing you buy, all ethically sourced. B Corporations like Patagonia that make sure all of their products are made in an ethical way with the right kind of recycling. And interestingly, another Australian organization gets Oscar Wiley, the glasses store, you know, donating a pair of glasses for a certain spend. And they are fully retailed organization in another very saturated very dominated market of big global conglomerates, and seemingly able to grow and disrupt in that space. But I think we’ll see this trend continue. I think that’s a really exciting trend. And I am really interested to see how that goes.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I actually also saw an ad or a bit of a trend just earlier this week, which was all about vegan shoes. Which again, it’s around, where are we getting those materials? Where are they being sourced from? Are they sustainable? Are they better for the environment? So things like that. And I was flying Virgin last week, and in the magazine, they’re talking about cafes opening up which don’t offer takeaway cups. It’s only eat in, drink in your coffee, or you need to bring your own cup because again, how do we be more environmentally conscious as businesses, I think you’re right gonna see more of that sort of trends coming out where, and also the link to what you’re saying about employees and consumers and that they’re both aligned with the purpose of the company.

Zach Lohrisch  

That’s right. And if our companies don’t move with that demand, not only will they not struggle to get the best talent, but they’ll struggle to keep their customers and that’s a real big one for us to keep our eyes on.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, definitely. Now, I’m going to jump back a little bit. I just want to quickly check. In all your travel you’ve done in the past 10 years and some exciting photos I’ve seen. Is there somewhere that when you think about it, and if you close your eyes, it’s like wow, I just, that was a time that was a place that just was something that I’m just so glad I experienced.

There’s a couple of moments. I think, you know, I guess two probably say, I’ll be greedy two standout to me. The first one was in 2013, I, we walked the 2000 year old ruins in Sri Lanka and it’s an incredible experience if anyone ever gets the chance to do it. You know a lot, unbeknownst to most of us, it’s one of the oldest civilizations in the world. And what they were able to build in that time was incredible. The reason why it’s so memorable for me is not only it was beautiful and amazing, and the history was incredible and learning about it was awesome. But it also triggered something in me because in 2013, I was deep in the corporate world, probably enjoyed the corporate credit card and travel a little too much. And I was quite a bit bigger than what I am now. And I remember having to walk up this really steep staircase that went way up the top of this mountain so you can see this view. And my wife and I were together. My brother was there as we walked up the staircase, and it was, I nearly died. I swear I was so sick from having to walk up this staircase in, you know, 38 degree heat and humidity. That was the moment where I decided that I needed to do something about health and fitness. And when I got back from that trip is when I started and found CrossFit and a fitness community that I could be a part of and that really changed my life. That’s probably one of the standouts.

Murray Guest  

Have you thought about going back there and running up those stairs?

I’d love to yeah, I’d absolutely love that, I’ve had that thought a few times, especially as I do sometimes do a run or something. I’m running up a hill and I’m like, you know, you know, like six years ago, I would not have been able to do that. So you know, it’s a really, that’s a special place for me. And likewise, I think last year, about this time last year, I was in the northern parts of Finland, up in Lapland. And it was the middle of winter and seeing the sun go down at about 2:45, three o’clock in the afternoon in negative 22 degrees in the middle of winter outside in the snow in the woods. And Finland was just an incredible experience, that that eerie stillness, and silence of the forest with heaps of snow is just creepy but amazing experience.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, well, wow, I that that to me, just I think of being in a magical environment. Magical situation. Yeah, that sounds beautiful, as well. Absolutely. So we’re about to hit the roaring 20s. When you think about what’s coming up going forward, what do you reckon? So we covered a bit about some of the trends but what do you reckon it is going to be like going forward? What do you think some of the things that are going to be happening? Let’s put the crystal ball, what do you reckon is going to happen?

Yeah, look, I when we, I guess when people think about the future, there’s a lot of a lot of doom and gloom, right. There’s a lot of people thinking about, you know, maybe we’ve had, we’ve had a bit too much doom and gloom as things aren’t going the right ways. But I am a bit of a bit of an eternal optimist, and I think things are getting better. And maybe I can share a couple of stories. Because prior to this call, I was sort of just doing a bit of a Google around. And I was thinking about like, what, uh, Is it as bad as we think it is? And maybe in some cases it is. But I, you know, in the last 10 years, a couple of facts, and I wrote them down as I thought they’re amazing. Last 10 years, the percentage of people living in extreme poverty has fallen from 35% to about 10%, is equal to about 2 billion people. Yeah, well, I think that’s an inch. I mean, we talk about global poverty, and there’s still so much work to do, but what a trend right, and if we can continue that work and accelerate that, what a different world we’ll live in. So my optimist says, good things are coming, and they are going to continue to come. We talked about the rise of the social enterprise, and I think that will be a massive player in our business. And in our day to day lives, we’ll just see more and more opportunities to make a choice as a consumer, or something that means something more and a choice as an employee to decide where I’m going to go invest my talent. And I’ll, you know, kind of get that opportunity to make a decision about that. The other story, which I found, which I found completely fascinating, and this is me, and my learner talent just getting caught up in the in the deep web, it happens quite regularly. But the story of the monarch butterfly. Are you familiar with the monarch butterfly?

Murray Guest  

Yeah. So not as deeply as you’re about to share with me. I’m aware of it and and I’d love to know more.

So, for those listening along the monarch butterfly, maybe in post production, we could put up a photo. So it’s like that orange, it’s a North American butterfly. It’s a beautiful big orange butterfly. It has black stripes on it. It’s yeah, it’s quite, quite beautiful. You know, with the change in the way we did industry over in the States and a lot of the habitat was changed or altered because of farming. We saw tremendous decreases in the population of monarch butterflies and they play a specific role in the ecology of, of that whole ecosystem. So I won’t go into the science of it, I don’t know it well enough, but significant decline to the point we thought we were going to lose the monarch butterfly, they were going to go extinct or be extremely endangered. In the last 10 years, we’ve seen 144% increase in the monarch butterfly population, now that most of that happened in the last year, and that was due to a concerted conservation effort around how we helped the monarch butterfly move through the continent, and how they help them pollinate and populate in the right ways, some very specific actions taken to make sure we save the butterfly, and that quite 144% increase in the population is an incredible trend. And that’s, you know, for the most part, you know, in a couple of years, we’ve pulled that together.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, that’s just wonderful. Can I just say that’s just one species too, and I’m sure there’s some other good stories out there. And I love your your learner talent in those three completely different examples of some good things that have been happening.

Absolutely. I mean, there’s so much reason for us to throw our hands in the air and say, We’re done for, I can’t change anything. But if we were just to look a little deeper, I think we can find that there are so many ways that we can change, and that we can have a positive impact. And that’s why, for me, I’m looking forward to the next 10 years. Because I think about if that’s the stuff we’ve been able to do in the last 10 years, or in shorter amounts of time, think about what we could do in you know, in the next 10 years. I mean, and I keep coming back to the social enterprise, because I think it’s such a game changer. But I yeah, and I did a little bit of a Google on that if you’re interested. You know, for a company like who gives a crap, there’s a company and just reality check this, company that literally sells toilet paper online, that’s their business, right? It’s, if someone had said to me five years ago, before they’re around, you know, there’s gonna be a company that is successful selling toilet paper online, I would have been like, not a chance, right? Not a chance. But they’ve delivered over two and a half million to charity, saving trees, water in process and building toilets and sanitary products around the developing world that didn’t exist there. And they’ve done all that since 2012. It’s a very impressive resume, for a pretty young, pretty simple, pretty outrageous company. And, you know, it’s, it’s cause for optimism, for sure.

Murray Guest  

It is and I won’t take the accolades for this, I’ll pass it on to my lovely wife, we got our first delivery, only a month or so ago, right, and part of the subscription model that they have, and then it’s been delivered over the, you know, every quarter, or whatever it is. And again, they have no plastic in their packaging, as well. So there’s the other benefit that they have as part of their model where it’s not consuming plastic and impacting the environment from that angle, as well. So those stories are out there. And I think the other thing you’re highlighting to me is, you can sit down and watch the six o’clock news every night and see all the bad news stories. But if you want to invest a bit of time, there is a lot of great things happening in the world, which actually also changes the way you see the world and those people around you as well. Now I want to ask you, I’m going to give you the opportunity to have a skywriter. And this skywriter is going to put your message around the Earth and everyone will see it. And this message is something that you would love for everybody in the world to to understand. Picture of skywriter only has so much space he can write in so I don’t want a huge message but what would be a key message you would love everyone to be aware of.

Zach Lohrisch  

A Skywriter.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, well, we’re going old school technology here.

Zach Lohrisch  

A Skywriter. I think a theme or a philosophy that I think would be great to share if I had the platform too, would be around balance and finding the right balance in your life. I think that’s very needed in our society and in our just for every individual, whatever that looks like for you. Help people remind them to find balance, balance between maybe work and play, you know, fun and games and seriousness, you know, balancing your, you know, your outputs and your inputs, and that’s very central to my life and finding the right balance is really important. Not only to your well being but to your performance as well and your satisfaction. So I think balance will be you know, a big, big, would be a message that I’d want to share.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I actually like that a lot. And I think there’s a strong link there to obviously lots of areas of health and mental health, physical health, stress and resiliency and I like the link to just so many areas of your life, like even that fun and seriousness side as well. Like I think, unfortunately for a lot of people I work with and leaders and businesses, it is serious. And someone said to me years ago, we do serious work, but we don’t need to be serious about it. Like, let’s let’s enjoy life while we go around it. So I do like that message and is different to the other conversations I’ve had in this series. So thank you, I think it is something so important.

Yeah, I had I had a manager and she might be listening. She used to say to everyone who joined our team, we take the work seriously but we don’t take ourselves that seriously. And I love that because it shows that some things are really important. But I don’t need to make myself important or feel important about doing it. It’s about, you know, enjoying the process as well.

Murray Guest  

If people want to know more about you and connect with you online, where’s the best place to do that?

Yes, so you can find me online. So you find me on LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to find me and about where I live a bit in the business world. I got a weird spelling surname. So lorish is how you say it, but you’ll publish the name up there. It’s yeah, it’s a read and write. But yep. Find me on LinkedIn. Yeah, we’ve got a couple of projects coming up in the future. So you’ll probably hear more about us and what we’re doing and in the world and through Instagram and other spaces as well. 

Murray Guest  

Awesome, mate. I just want to acknowledge your energy, your knowledge and the way you share that the impact you make in the world with the journey you’ve had in your career and all the people you’ve come into contact with and the way that you’ve helped them, see what’s possible their talents and understand themselves and your thirst for learning. And it’s been great getting to know you can’t wait to talk to you more. So thank you for showing up today and sharing a lot of the knowledge that you have. It’s been awesome.

Zach Lohrisch  

Hey, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.

Murray Guest  

No worries mate. Thank you, chat soon. Bye.

Episode 46 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Shane & Angelina Saunders

In this episode I chat with Shane and Angelina Saunders, where they share their insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

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Transcript

Murray Guest  

Welcome to the roaring 20s podcasts we’re about to end a decade, head into another one. I’ve got two awesome people Shane and Angie, Angie and Shane. How are you? 

Shane Saunders  

Great. 

Murray Guest  

I’m really good. We were just talking about, you know, we’re getting to the end of the year. But you know, the wheels are still going pretty quick at the moment.

Shane Saunders  

Yeah, yes. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

But I don’t, I don’t feel busy. I haven’t got that busyness feeling. I’m in a bit of flow. How are you guys going?

Shane Saunders  

Yeah, very much, very much the same. You can, I think you can mistake it for busyness. Or you can look at, you know, we’ve been intentional this whole year. And we decided that we wanted to be intentional going into this period, because this period is usually the period where most people kind of either just, you know, they check out or they say, you know, Christmas is here. So we’ll just we’ll leave everything. You know, I think a lot of people do get a little bit, maybe, you know, they go into a little bit of a business depression, because they look back and go, did I get enough done for this year. And so like, we did have that feeling as well. But we thought, we’re going to, we’re going to push through and we still enjoy the holidays. But we’re going to push through and be ready to go into the roaring 20s.

Angie Saunders  

So there’s a time there’s a time to row really fast. And then there’s time to put the oars in the boat. So you just kind of got to know which one to do at what point.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. I also think that you’re right, too many people think, okay, it’s the end of the year, let’s either beat ourselves up or slacken off. And so it’s a great time of the year to be as, I’m loving that word, intentional about what it is that I want to do going into the next year. And what can I do now to set myself up for success?

Shane Saunders  

Yeah, yeah, totally. I don’t think, you know, around this time of the year also Murray like, people, it’s kind of like people are slowing down. So people are more open to planning stuff. You know, we’ve noticed that a lot more people are like, Yeah, let’s plan something for going into next year. So we’ve really found it actually, one of the most productive times that we’ve had, you know, that November sort of coming into December now.

Angie Saunders  

And the trick is, the trick is to just to know where you’re going as well and have those intentions in sight. So and quite often we look at ourselves and reflect on, you know, who we’ve been to be able to get us to where we are today. And then who we have to become going into the new year to get us to the goals that we want to get to for next year.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, gotcha. And for those that don’t know, you are the brains, the breath behind Breathe Me and you breathe powers into people through getting them to focus and consciously, intentionally bring that, that knowledge and understanding about the power of breath into everything that they do in their life. I was gonna just say to me, before you talk about you, let me talk about you. Just you, I love the work that you do. And I’ve done lots of training over the years, and there’s a legacy to what you do, which I want to acknowledge that while I’ve done bits of training with you, either through sessions, or one on one, it sticks with me. And I know it sticks with others because of the power of it. Whether that’s in stress, resiliency, focus, energy, that just coming back to the breath, and, and the different patterns and that awareness. And that knowledge of that and it works. And I still remember Shane saying to me, trust me now, believe me later. And he’s right.

Shane Saunders  

And it’s always with you, Murray. You know, that’s what we love about what we do we’ve come to really realize this year is that it’s something you’re already, you know, what we’re what we’re championing for people is something that you’re already doing, you know, it’s available to you in that and that’s where we see, you know, the navigation of what’s coming up, coming up in 2020. And, and also navigating this, leaving this decade. You know, and leaving feeling like you’ve cleared the energy, you’ve cleared everything else, you don’t have to feel disappointed because you’re always going to be moving forward. And so that’s going to be an amazing thing.

Angie Saunders  

And there’s a lot of pressure and noise out there, especially at this time of the year. So for me it’s like where I get to stop and take a moment like think of it even like a one minute holiday just to stop business as usual. To take a break from the pressure noise to be able to quiet the mind so fast. And meditation for me was a struggle. So that’s why I love the breathing aspect. Because it gives my mind something to do while my body gets to relax and let go. And then quite often, after one to three minutes, I come back going, Oh, I’ve got an idea or a fresh perspective, that will take me into a different direction.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Now I want to go back 10 years. So if you reflect on that past decade, 2009, through to 2019. A bit of a, bit of a journey, I’m sure. What can you acknowledge and celebrate, when you think about the past decade?

Angie Saunders  

Well, I have so much, I feel like I have so much because in 2009, that’s like, you know, I met Shane, and I got married, I just came here from the US. Getting ready to have a baby in the following year. So there was so much change happening. For me, it was like, growing up from the 20, you know, being in my 20s to getting into my 30s. And so now, the perspective now is going you know, 30s, into the 40s. So there was a, there was a big shift that needed to happen for me, I so like I am I look back 10 years, and I’m not the same person, we don’t have the same life, and I am so grateful.

Shane Saunders  

I totally agree with Angie. And I think that the last 10 years was a self development run up for me, I discovered self development. You know, I always knew that I wanted to succeed, but I just didn’t know that there was a formula to it until actually discovering, you know that and it’s interesting, you know, it’s like, it’s like the ugliest present, right? The wrapping is not very good. But what’s inside, it is amazing. And I think that’s what that’s how self development turned up for me. I was like, I don’t really want to do this stuff. But getting into it, it’s been so rewarding. And, you know, as Angie mentioned, you know, we’ve we’ve raised our girls, we, you know, we’ve come through we have had some, you know, we’ve we’ve had property deals that we’ve done in that time we’ve had them go through and come through to fruition, we’ve learned a lot of lessons, both in business, in investing and in property. And you know, what, what’s really exciting Murray is looking forward to see what’s coming. It’s interesting to also look back and see what the echoing, what the things that keep, like, we’ve noticed that things keep rhyming, you know, they do say that in history. And, you know, the reason why we’re so excited about what’s coming up for for this next decade, is because if you look back even 100 years to the 1920s, you’re gonna start seeing all these parallels, like, you know, look at things like prohibition and all of this, and now you’re seeing, you know, the, they’re starting to come out with legalization of psychedelics, and, you know, all there’s all these things that are rhyming, and the 20s were known as this massive year of like, growth and expansion. And yeah, you know, the rise of independent women and all these things. So I’m looking back on the last 10 years, because you know, like, if I look back 20 years, I kind of go, Well, I didn’t really, you don’t really take notice. But 10 years is enough for you to go, oh, I can see some patterns, you know, you can see some patterns forming. You can take the learnings from what happened. So we’re super excited, like about the learnings that we’ve had from the last 10 years, and we’re certainly married.

Murray Guest  

Well, I love that when I asked that question, there’s a whole lot of different things that came out from getting married to moving to a new country to launching a business to personal development to raising two beautiful children. Like there’s so much in the in the property development and things like that. But when you think about your personal development, is there a theme or a key lesson that has been reoccurring, that you think has grounded you and helped you your success? 

Angie Saunders  

So whenever I’ve been consistent in something, this is a conversation that’s quite active at the moment, I married the the military discipline, right. So for me, the consistent theme has just been one, it’s consistent with connecting with myself, it’s consistent with being able to shift any energy that’s in the way of the momentum of where I want to go. And for me, breathing has been the fastest, most leverage thing most, most intimate thing for me, like made for me sort of modality.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So the connecting to yourself, yes. And grounding and the power of breathing to help you do that.

Angie Saunders  

Yeah. And I would also say that, it’s also a fast way to replenish my own energy. So like, you know, people talk about self love and nurturing, thinking that we have to go get our hair and nails done for self love and nurturing. But for me, it’s about, you know, clearing the energy of the any sort of stress in the body by using the breath. It’s, you know, drinking more water than I usually do. It’s making sure I get sleep, it’s, you know, making sure I go outside, so I don’t feel trapped in these four walls. You know, it’s the little things.

Shane Saunders  

Yeah, what’s wrapped up for me in this last 10 years over this, this journey of self development, Murray, has been your quality of your thoughts are everything. And if you bought, like, if you boil all the self development stuff, even the ancient stuff that I’ve read, you know, because we’ve done a lot of study on the yogic stuff, tower stuff, you know, with the breathing, because it takes you down that, that path, and where it all intersects, it all intersects at a couple of different things, I believe, and this is just my opinion, it intersects at the quality of your thoughts, it intersects at looking after your body. And it intersects at really understanding sexual energy and life force. Like and there, I think that the, those three things are, are folded into the fabric of all self development. But really the one that I think is the most, I guess that the one that you can work on the most, or the one that’s really easily accessible as the quality of your thoughts. Because you are what you’re thinking, you know, just having that dawn on me after, you know, 10 years of going through this stuff and crawling through everything. And it’s like, really, you know, if you can get to that stage, where you’re like, Okay, what’s what do I do each day, to have quality thoughts, to think quality of other people to think quality of what I’m doing, you know, and and avoid, you’re always going to have negative thoughts. It’s just, your human, it’s life, right, your environment is going to going to press that on you. But it’s how you have, how you create a shield around yourself to be able to deflect those things. It’s how you absorb those things. And it’s how you ultimately, you know, interpret them, and then, you know, move forward in life. So I think that that’s been pretty much the major thing that I’ve sort of found out with it.

Murray Guest  

I’d like to add, and I totally agree. And that’s been a lesson for me, certainly in the past 10 years, and the power of our thoughts and how they shape our world and how we see ourselves and those around us. But when we have those negative thoughts, because we are human, and I certainly get them just like anyone does. It’s about having that awareness about when you have them. What do you do with and what do you do after, when they come up? Do you continue down a spiral? Do you sit in that that self pity? Or do you start to start to think some different thoughts and as hard as that might be, there’s, that’s when the power comes in, because it’s starting to change how you see the world.

Shane Saunders  

Totally, totally. And the, you know, we’ve what we’ve discovered through the modality of breathing is that, you know, when you find yourself stuck in one of those negative spirals, the breathing is powerful enough to shift the state to shift the energy to give you a, it gives you like, this little it’s, you know, like electric shock there. Right? Like, it gives you enough of a bump out to go, Whoa, what what was I doing, you know, like, and you’ll, you’ll get to see it. So that’s why we love it. And there’s no talking involved. There’s no like, there’s no like, Oh, you’ve got to positively think or you got to do this, you got to It’s like no, just sit down and be with your breath, or, you know, go through a certain pattern or a certain way that you do it. And it will, you’ll feel something different. And that’s enough to sort of bump you out of it.

Murray Guest  

So I want to jump in and share a breathing lesson, which I haven’t shared with you, that I’ve had over the years. And and I want to get your perspective on this one. And so as you know, I like to ride my mountain bike, and I had this realization that what I would do is, you know, breathe, breathing in and out consciously when I’m riding up the hill cross country, but I’ll get into sometimes a bit of a situation where I would just be hanging on and holding my breath on the downhill. Yes. And get to the bottom and I’m not energized. And I’m sure it was Tammy that said to me, don’t forget to breathe in on the downhills. Yes. And that that message has stuck with me not just in writing, but just in life that we seem to focus on our breath when it’s like okay, times are tough, but also focus on when you’re in the flow and going down. 

Shane Saunders  

Yes well, it totally is and I think also just listening to that, Murray, I think what what a lot of people maybe don’t realize consciously is when you’re concentrating, there’s a tendency to pause your breath. Yeah and I think of animals in the wild when they’re hunting. Just before they’re about to strike, they will pause their breath because it’ll increase the sensory, you know that it’ll increase the hearing and the sight and everything that because you’ve not got an internal sound. So there is a, there is an evolutionary part to that. And when you learn to flow and breathe, like through your nose, through concentration, or through difficult times, you will have a different experience of what’s happening. So yeah, definitely, that’s a it’s a great real life experience. There’s another

Angie Saunders  

Another perspective of possibly even bracing for impact, you know, so it just depends on where it’s coming from.

Shane Saunders  

You’ve been there already.

Murray Guest  

We can edit that bit out. Thank you. I think, yes, I think you might be right. Now, I want to do a bit of predicting that we’re going forward, as you said, we’re heading into those those 20s. The 2020s. What do you think that looks like for the work that you’re doing? For the people you work with? And even for, more broadly, what do you think life’s gonna be like?

Angie Saunders  

Wow, that is a really good question. This is something that I’ve been mulling around even for the last three years.

Shane Saunders  

Before we start, though, no one’s got a crystal ball. This is if we’re invited to express just our opinion.

Angie Saunders  

So for for me, I have a vision. I mean, there’s a vision for myself, a vision for the business, a vision for the family, you know, and it all kind of fits in pretty well, where I feel, I feel that there’s a motivation to share this work with people because of the impact of how great it’s had me feel, and how we’ve been able to enjoy our life and how we’re still married. Yeah, I think that that is, for me, it’s a it’s a it’s a mission, to be able to share this work with others. So however it looks I’m open to how it looks. However, there is a little bit of a focus vision on where we’re going to be taking it.

Shane Saunders  

Yeah, I think the if we do look at I know I mentioned it before, but Murray, if we do look at if history plays out the same way as yet, as it always has, like, if you go back and look at history, the rhyming is absolutely ridiculous. I didn’t, I didn’t know this until I studied more economics and more about cycles in investing. And I was just totally blown away, because I’m super skeptical. But there’s just these rhyming things, if we look at if we look at coming into this decade, coming into this decade, you know, economically, it’s, it’s going to be a rough start, like when I say rough start, it’s going to be a lot happening. It’s not like there’s going to be you know, everyone’s saying or, you know, there might be crashes, there might be this probably is going to be that kind of stuff. However, we are moving into a prosperous decade. And then at the end of the decade, supposedly, we’re going to have a little bit of a drop off the cliff, again, which is which which is which is forecasted in a lot of the you know, because when things go up, and they blow up into things, there’s got to be a natural correction. So I think in this decade, we’re gonna see some ups, and we’re gonna see some big downs. And I think that if you’re really prepared for that, and you and you’re smart about it, and you’re looking in the right places, you’re going to be able to really, financially profit from that. But also growth wise and knowledge wise, I think it’s going to be massive. And so where we come into all of that is we’re preparing all of our clients and everyone we know, to be able to like navigate that turbulence at the start. Because if you’ve got your, if you’ve got your skates strapped on properly, you you are going to win. Like it’s going to be a fast pace, frenetic, you know, start to the decade and going through, but I think if you’re ready, then you’re really going to you’re going to pick up some, you know, financial wise, business wise, all of that, we are super excited. And, you know, we’re telling all our clients, and we’re talking to all our clients insane, just had the skill sets down, have you breathing down, have your estate management down, have all this stuff down, because there’s going to be things that are going to be seemingly, you know, like, there’s going to be bright, shiny objects everywhere. We all know in business, that the whole bright shiny object thing is a classic, grab your attention and take you off, you know, your eye off the ball. So we are we are super excited about it. And we feel that we’ve been, you know, we’ve been blessed and we’ve been charged with, with bringing the breathing and the work that we do to entrepreneurs, to the business owners to people scaling their teams, to trailblazers, to all these people so that they can push forward and, you know, it’s also going to be a chance for there to be more massive change in culture, you know, we’re seeing the rise of, of independent women, you know, women leaders, you know, around the world. And I think that it’s probably about time that, that there is some feminine energy risen in the world, just it just to balance things out a little bit and bring more perspective to leadership and to what’s going on.

Angie Saunders  

Being able to have the energy to surf the waves of change, whether they’re up or down.

Murray Guest  

And there is so many good stories around that change in the female leaders in the world and the feminine energy that’s coming around and some equality, that also unfortunately, in some areas, we’ve got some still some segregation and some separation happening and things like that. So you’re right, there’s still some rough patches to come. But hopefully, then that’ll all balance out.

Angie Saunders  

Well, to be able to come together, you have to understand that you’re separate. So it’s all part of the process.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Now, I’ve been putting people on the spot through these conversations asking me if they’re willing to put out any personal goals, they might have some people been talking about books, other people talking about things they want to launch or things they want to achieve. If I asked you, is there any personal goals you’re willing to put out there and say, Hey, this is some stuff that I’m you know, and you can you actually can separate at times, like?

Angie Saunders  

He definitely has his own goals.

Shane Saunders  

We have our own and we have them together. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

So what are you happy to share?

Angie Saunders  

I would like you to go first Shane actually, because I usually, I’m usually the one that’s got it all right there.

Shane Saunders  

I’m the one that I’m the one that still struggles with my own my own goal setting cause I only see week to week what’s going on. That being said, we we are currently growing the business so that we can go to the US, now going to the US is a big step for us. For me, it’s a big leap. But I just got to the point, Murray, where I’ve started looking at how big our business can be, you know, for years, for years, and the years leading up and the last sort of three years that we’ve really had this business cranking. I’ve always I could never see where it could get to. But now, given the partnerships that we’ve got going in the US, given where we’re heading, we’ve, you know, we’ve been approached by some pretty prominent people in in the area of breathing that, you know, that want to look at the different protocols and maybe have them tested and things like that, that’s just an amazing thing that’s come up, I see that our business can really jump from where it is now into a million dollar business. And just knowing knowing that and talking to a lot of people, all our current clients right now run businesses between three and 10 million in the US. And just to see that what what’s given me a lot of perspective is that they’re still they’re still doing it, they’re still struggling with the same stuff, it doesn’t matter if you’re making that amount of money, you’re still struggling with thinking about you’re gonna lose it or you’re still got troubles with the family or you know, it’s you’re human and you’re human. And so we’re really seeing that, that we can really bring our business up that our goals goals that I thought wouldn’t be achievable three years ago, I can see heading into this period are achievable. They are and I know Angie is smiling like finally got on board. But I think next year, taking our business to a million dollar business is in on it, you know, people I if I was listening to me, and I hadn’t been in that game, I’d be like, Oh, well, you know, everyone wants a million dollar business. The thing though, is that what I’ve realized this getting to a million dollars is not some you don’t get a trophy in a medal for it, it is actually where your business actually where most businesses only begin to start. When they get when they get there, you know, you know, seeing the guys that we’ve seen and working with them. It’s been amazing to see how that is. It’s a milestone, but it’s also only the first real step to scaling truly scaling a business and having teams and things like that so.

Murray Guest  

So I’m mindful of our time and how much you can talk about your goal…

Angie Saunders  

Shane does love to talk. But I don’t mind, gives me a break.

Murray Guest  

And he will give me you know, high level, some goals that are important to you. Because Shane used up all your time.

Angie Saunders  

Yeah, so it’s really for me it’s a it’s all about team and it’s all about the impact. So for me is it is as long as I can build a team and create the impact on on being able to create a difference for individuals en masse, that I’m happy. And the third thing I would say is freeing my time up so I can, so I can be that mom, you know, where I could, you know, show up at school and on a random day and play with the girls, you know. So it’s, it’s enabling me to do what I love doing as well. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Fantastic. Now, I’m going to give you the opportunity to hire a sky writer who’s going to fly above the earth and put a message on the earth, that everyone around the world is going to see they’re going to see your message to head them into this next decade and set them for success. What is your message? Angie? Hmm. Or either one?

Angie Saunders  

Thank you. My message would be around, taking the time to stop. I think I think I think people there’s not enough people out there saying, take the time to stop and recuperate and rejuvenate and allow yourself to see things from a fresh perspective. So for me, the breath is the fastest, easiest way to get me there. So of course that and that’s, you know, I might be biased. But I’ve also tried a lot of modalities. So this is, you know, for me, I would say stop and take the time to look after yourself and get fresh perspective. 

Murray Guest  

Beautiful.

Shane Saunders  

How long is the message?

Angie Saunders  

One sentence.

Shane Saunders  

One sentence? I would have, I would have, I would have there that the quality of your thoughts dictate your happiness. I think that that’s a and I think what goes with that is the even the ability for us to think, I think is is something that we should be happy about. So I think that that would be the message that I would put out there.

Murray Guest  

That is a beautiful, powerful message, Shane, thank you. And Angie, thank you for your message. I mean, that is powerful as well, thank you, thank you, I want to acknowledge you guys for the work that you do for making this insight into breathing so accessible for so many people in a way that is fun, that works that is applicable to so many areas of your life. And for so many people, it doesn’t matter what they do in their life as well. I know that you do a lot with business leaders, with entrepreneurs, with business owners. And I know that you’re helping them achieve their goals in more of that state of flow, and not getting their burnout and so on acknowledge how beautiful it is and powerful it is that you do that, but also for your friendship and what you’ve taught me along the way as well. So thank you.

Angie Saunders  

Thank you. It’s been absolute pleasure.

Murray Guest  

Just to wrap us up where’s the one best place for people to find more about you and the work that breathe me does.

Angie Saunders  

So that’s breatheme.com. And we will most likely invite you over to the group where we do all kinds of free breathing for you.

Murray Guest  

Cool, that sounds fantastic, guys. I look forward to chatting again soon and wishing you the most amazing decade coming up. I’m so excited about following your success and talking more.

Angie Saunders  

Thank you Murray.

Murray Guest  

See you guys. 

Episode 45 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Ken Barr Jnr

In this episode I chat with Ken Barr Jnr, where he shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

Listen in your favourite app

Transcript

Murray Guest  

Hey Ken, how are you?

Ken Barr  

I’m Well, sir.

Murray Guest  

Great to hear. I’m good. I’m really good. Welcome to the end of a decade as we jump into the roaring 20s.

Ken Barr  

Here we go, man.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, it’s it’s I think it’s pretty exciting just considering that the 2020s are here and I feel like the 2020s were going to be something years into the future. And we’re here.

Ken Barr  

I hear ya. It’s like flying cars and video calls and all that. I think we’re a little closer than people think.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, well, I’m still looking out for the hover skateboard.

Ken Barr  

For Back to the Future. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Where’s that? Where’s? Where’s the hover skateboard?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, I’m waiting for that, too.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, so I’m looking forward to catching up with you and talking today about the past decade and what you reckon is coming in this next decade, the 2020s. You and I both chatted a few times, had you on the podcast. And we’ve talked about our journeys. And I love talking to you. And I get to hear a very cool accent, which I appreciate.

Ken Barr  

I feel the exact same way about you. 

Murray Guest  

Oh don’t say that. Yeah. So tell me about your past decade. What’s something that stands out to you, when you think back from 2009, through to 2019?

Ken Barr  

Well, a ton has happened. But I think probably the the coolest thing is that this strengths movement is absolutely tipped, I would say in 2009 that you could go into, you could go to a party, or you could go to a conference. And there were a handful of people who knew about it. I feel like most of the time we were explaining about what this is. 10 years later, I feel now it is rare that somebody has not heard about it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, and I totally agree. I was with a client yesterday, and we’re talking about a presentation I’m doing soon around strengths. And the manager of this client I’ve never met before. He said, Yeah, I just did my MBA in the last couple of years and strengths was part of doing that MBA. And yes, that would not have been the statement a decade ago. Yeah, I agree. And you’ve helped a lot of people get to know their strengths, through Clifton Strengths, through Strengths Finder. You know, it’s up to 18,000 people, we want to celebrate that. That’s amazing.

Ken Barr  

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it definitely when you put it in those numbers, it definitely makes me think like, how were we even able to do that?

Murray Guest  

So, tell me, how did you do that? How did you roll out strengths?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, you know, I can tell you in the beginning, I mean, we were trying to get anybody to start to speak the language. So it felt like we were just bribing them. Let me let me take you to lunch. Let me give you this. Think of Pop Tarts, candy, a cup of coffee. By the way, will you please take this assessment? Can we, so we could talk about your strengths? I eventually, that evolved into doing working with larger groups. And for me, that’s where we are able to get numbers like that, because we just started to work with so many groups.

Murray Guest  

And for all those people that you would have had strengths based conversations with, does anything stand out when you think about the impact that’s made on them?

Ken Barr  

Oh, my gosh, I think, you know that I used to work for a school. And now 10 years later, we’ve got students who are on their second career, and for some of them to say that I absolutely know that I made the right choice, because I get a chance to do what I’m good at. And part of that is because I discovered it through these coaching conversations.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, well, and I that must be so rewarding for you to think about. Not only did you introduce the language and the idea of focusing on your strengths, but it’s helped people in the pathway of their life.

Ken Barr  

Yeah, no kidding. I mean, I’m getting a text late last night at 10 o’clock, from a former student slash client, about salary negotiations, multiple offers. And I’m just thinking to myself, Oh, my gosh, I remember when this student was still not sure. How do we do this? Yeah. I feel great about it.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah. And that’s a that’s a lot of people. When you think about some of those conversations that you’ve had with people, what do you think the impact has also been on yourself in the past 10 years with the strengths focus because you’ve been not only going deep for other people, but for yourself as well?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, I just had a conversation, thank you for asking that, with my brother the other day, and I said, I just feel thankful that I found something that I am really good at, that now has come to be in demand that now people want to help with the discovery and the application of their strengths. And it just so happens that this is naturally the way that I see the world.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I totally get that. I did my assessment back, you know, eight years ago, when I first saw that I was like, Wow, this makes sense to me. This this language, this approach, it actually was like, Oh, I’ve been looking for this, that connects with me. Any personal achievements in the past decade that we can take the time out to do a virtual high five and celebrate?

Ken Barr  

Well, I have been able to, so it’s funny, like how personal we want to get here?

Murray Guest  

You can go as personal as you like.

Ken Barr  

I think that the thing that I value most in this world, our relationships, and the fact that I’ve been able to maintain the ones that have been just so vital to what brings me joy, and I’ve been able to be a positive contributor. And in so many people’s lives, I think the, I feel great about being able to learn about myself, and figure out where I can be most productive, where I can provide the most value. And it’s a continuing process. But I feel like I have done a pretty good job of it in the last 10 years.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, that feels good. And I want to acknowledge that. I mean, your friendship is something I really value and the connection, and your spirit for helping those around you is amazing. So yeah, I think we should do one of those, and high five that, awesome. 

Ken Barr  

Thank you. I appreciate it Murray. 

Murray Guest  

2020 is just around the corner. What do you reckon the future looks like for the work that you do? And the work of strengths and coaching and things like that? What do you think that’s going to look like?

Ken Barr  

Well, I think the fact that we’re doing this on this kind of technology is a bit of a preview, I think the the technology just creates more opportunities for people to be connected. I mean, if I think of what it would take for us to do this, even 10 years ago, it just not nearly as simple as, what what we just went through. So yeah, the opportunity to connect with people in other countries, the opportunity to get into your classrooms or media rooms, with people being able to dialogue, real time polling, split screen, taking a look at these items, the technology just makes it all the more accessible.

Murray Guest  

So do you think that the coaching and even not just coaching, but education and training is just going to keep on growing and opening up wider around the world and making that information and the ability to learn even more accessible?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, I think it, coaching is basically it has everything to do with the relationship. And so now you can shop in places that before you were simply limited to what you what was close to proximity was one of the biggest factors, but what we know about effectiveness of coaching is the connection you have with somebody. Yeah, if that somebody just is just waking up somewhere on the other side of the world. And that’s your person. Well, now, we can facilitate that connection. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

What about in education? In your universities? What do you see changing there? Do you think? Because I know you’ve done a lot of work in that space?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, I think now, the I first of all, hug a teacher, give that person some coffee, a gift, give them all the positivity and affirmation or recognition you can because the work that they do is one, incredibly important, and secondly, I think it isn’t always understood how much effort they really put into it. And if you thought about it, you got a room with 30 people in it, all 30 of them are unique. And yet the expectation is that you can get all 30 of them to accomplish the learning objectives, even though they all think feel and behave differently. Yeah. So I think in regard to the work that we do, that the discovery of what makes them tick will make teaching a bit more. I mean, if I can just say it a little bit easier. Once you understand what lights that person up, then you can, you can quickly figure out the way to engage them is to do this, this and this. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

I totally agree on the comment about give a teacher a hug, buy them a cup of coffee, give them some support some recognition. Unfortunately, it’s one of those positions that does not get anywhere near that support, and even the salary that they deserve for all the hard work that they do day in day out, and the care and passion and everything they do. Yeah, yeah, that’s a good point. Now I’m going to put you on the spot. We’re going to jump ahead. It’s 2030. Okay, I want you to really tap into some of those futuristic sort of strengths and talents. Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

Ken Barr  

In 10 years, as a couple of things, I hope that I am one of those guys, that is giving some kind of boat tour, or I’m using my input here all the facts about this place, or maybe a docent at a museum. Yeah, okay, I’ve collected enough there. Maybe there’s like a comic book gallary. Or somewhere I can use all the information that I’ve collected since I was a kid and disperse it that way. But you regard it professionally.

Murray Guest  

It’s not an either or, I think you can, you can do plenty of things. There’s enough time.

Ken Barr  

But professionally, I think the evolution will be to teach this next generation of coaches, and workshop facilitators and speakers, everything that we have learned that is effective, that provides value to clients, that helps people feel energized and get great outcomes. I think it will be my responsibility and yours, to, to teach them, show them this is why it’s been effective. This, this doesn’t work. Don’t do that. And, and be there for that sort of guidance and mentorship.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, yeah. I totally agree. I want to go back a second and agree. Yeah, there’s not an either or, there’s the yes and. And I think that’s one of the things I’ve certainly learnt in the last decade that the idea of being an employee or owning a business, there’s just so many variations of what that can look like, and what you do with yourself, to fill up your cup and do your best. And you know, you might want to be a museum curator and be coaching people. You can do whatever you want. So many times, I’m not giving you permission. I’m just, there’s so many options out there. Yeah, I’ve got maybe I’m gonna be a late night show talk host and and then I start up a band. There we go.

Ken Barr  

Now we’re talking now, you got the voice. Got the instincts for the hosting. Mean, Jimmy Fallon is going to retire at some point. So they can be an opening with late night. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah, that works for that in the next few years. Yeah. Something to think about. Thank you, my friend. Now, I have been putting people on the spot in these conversations and saying, Is there a personal goal that you’re aiming to achieve? And so we’re recording it right now putting it out there to the to the universe that you’re happy to put out there? A couple of people have been talking about getting some books out, and writing a book. Yeah, what about for you? 

Ken Barr  

It’s so funny. This reminds me a bit of like New Year’s Resolution, which I never used to do. Yeah, and I still don’t, it was just this sort of, I was used to setting a goal and then Maximizer just working hard until I got it. But if it’s in a year, it’s really to do more, it’s scale. I’ve personally just had a really, really, really busy year and have done some really, really good work. I’ve had some managers that I’ve worked with that have had some incredible growth and breakthrough. Their companies have had great years. So it’s the scale. It’s like now how can we get more people to be able to do this to go through that same sort of process?

Murray Guest  

Hmm, nice. And I saw recently you’re running a leadership retreat, had a roomful of leaders and I want to see more photos of that because I know that you would have had them in a in a space of learning and growth. So that would have been amazing, I’m sure.

Ken Barr  

Yes, thank you and I and that is one of the things I would like to do more. The same thing, scale lar. Okay, let’s get a bigger room. Let’s invite more people.

Murray Guest  

Okay, now I’m gonna ask you one last question. So I want you to think about a sky writer, you know, the planes that go around the Earth, above the sky, and they put a message out there. Your opportunity I’m giving you right now is to get your message wherever it is, one message out that everyone in the world is going to see to set them up for the next 10 years, the next decade, what’s the message, you would love everyone in the world to see that you’re going to have your sky writer put across the sky? And they will just see that as they walk out? What’s your message?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, thank you for the idea. I may do this for Michigan’s home football opener. Thanks for the opportunity. That message is, better is better. 

Murray Guest  

Oh, give me a bit of a bit more detail on that one?

Ken Barr  

Sure. When you think about your own growth and development, there’s not this plateau that you hit when you turn 30. Or when you turn 40. Or when you’re turn 50. There’s a part where you need to think, like, Can I do it better? Is there a part of this that can be better. So that is the thing that I hear myself, say to clients all the time, I hear other people say it back to me. In fact, I had a student use it in his presentation, they go, and it’s just the want for this continuous growth and development. Better is better, and you can apply to yourself, but also for what you’re putting out into the world. Being a better sibling, being a better partner, providing a better service for whatever your business is, better is better.

Murray Guest  

I’m going to be using that. I love it. I think it’s simple and just so powerful, because then the discussion that it just creates for people to say, Well, what does that look like for me in my life and the work that I do?

Ken Barr  

Yeah, yeah. And you can just ask them very, what would you like to make better? Yeah, that’s a reveal. That’s already something that they’re thinking, what are they noticing? And then, as a coach, how can you help them make progress toward that?

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Thank you. That is gold. I love it. You’re welcome. Where’s the best place online for people to find you?

Ken Barr  

The best place to find me online is actually if you really want to engage and have conversation is you can find me on LinkedIn. Yeah, just search Ken Barr Jr.

Murray Guest  

Great. And I will make sure that people can find you there in the show notes. I want to thank you for just you being you, the way you show up, the friendship over the last few years, the great work that you do. And I want to acknowledge again, the impact you’ve made in so many people’s lives to help them be their best selves and just find a career path that really connects with their strengths. You do amazing work, and you’re doing more of that now. So I want to acknowledge and celebrate that, that is absolutely awesome. Thank you.

Ken Barr  

Thank you, sir. I appreciate you. I love, you are one of the very best facilitators and connectors in our community. So we appreciate you. I love ya, I think you’re the best. I think your accent is better than mine. So I’m just gonna say that, better is better.

Murray Guest  

That is beautiful. That just shows the type of person you are that you’re gonna acknowledge this voice as much as I acknowledge yours, so thank you. All right, you have an amazing decade coming up, talk to you soon.

Ken Barr  

You got it, sir. Take care. Bye.

Episode 42 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Melanie Midegs

In this episode I chat with Melanie Midegs, where she shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

Listen in your favourite app

Transcript

Murray Guest  

I’m with Melanie Midegs. And we are talking about the past decade and the next decade as we head into the roaring 20s. Melanie, how are you?

Melanie Midegs  

I’m fantastic. Thank you so much for inviting me to this really awesome question. I think. 

Murray Guest  

Well, thank you, I really appreciate that and the chance to chat and to connect again, I love getting to know you earlier this year in Bali, and just your whole approach to the work that you do. You are a futurist and teacher of the chakra philosophy for business. And we’re gonna get into that. And I just want to acknowledge the whole passion you have for the work that you do and the work that you bring into corporations and changing people’s mindsets around what it is around emotional intelligence and this philosophy. How are you?

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah, I’m fabulous. It’s hot, though. It is hot. I know. I can’t remember how long it’s been since we saw each other in Bali. But I don’t think it’s rained since I’ve seen you like it. It’s hot and dry here right now.

Murray Guest  

Well, I know last time I was there, the locals were saying it’s hot. So if the locals are saying it’s hot, it is hot.

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah. And I’ve been here for five years now. So and I’m saying it’s hot, too.

Murray Guest  

So let’s look back on the last decade. So help me out and help our listeners understand when did you get into this area that you focus on now?

Melanie Midegs  

Yes. So teaching chakra philosophy for business. My turning point was actually seven years ago when I started to study to become a psychosomatic therapist. But I would say the whole process started probably a decade ago when my world was just like, felt like it was falling to pieces around me. And yeah, it was psychosomatic therapy that really woke me up. And it was, it was just I knew instantly when I was doing that training, that this was what I had to teach people and to get them to wake up to see the bigger picture of what’s really going on.

Murray Guest  

And for people that don’t understand, what is psychosomatic therapy?

Melanie Midegs  

So psychosomatic therapy is the study of the mind and body connection. Psych meaning the mind and soma being the body. And what I’m trying to do is actually read it. So you can read the whole body. And it aligns to a lot of emotional aspects, personality aspects and what we’re holding on to, but you can also read the face and so bring your face reading into my work. But I find it’s, if when we use our body as a compass, to what to do, it is a game changer. And we’re you know, we’re numbed out, people that aren’t awake are numbed out. That’s why there’s so much addiction, so much depression.

Murray Guest  

What does it mean for you personally, to have this understanding? And I know that you teach it for others? What does it mean for you?

Melanie Midegs  

My whole world has changed, like, the whole thing has changed. I used to dream, actually, I remember when I was because I’m 41 now. So 10 years ago, I was 31. Even before that, when I was about 29, I had this picture up on the back of my bedroom door of like a villa. It wasn’t a Balinese villa, but it was a villa with sort of that, you know, Balinese kind of feel to it. And I used to look at it, wanting it, but just thinking I have no idea how that’s gonna happen. No idea. And through understanding my body that that has just shifted how do I make decisions, understanding myself on a bigger on a deeper level to start doing things that are right for me, rather than just kind of going along with the crowd of like, what life is supposed to look like.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Okay. So from a decision making process, do you actually take that moment to tap into what is your body telling you before you sort of just leap in and maybe even go through it? Unconsciously through life?

Melanie Midegs  

I, I use it more like when I’m making my decisions when my body plays up. It’s like, oh, a bit of a check in. Rather than the other way around. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

It’s 2019. You know, 2009. I actually saw a photo of you on Instagram, when you did that sort of comparison being into that, you looked very different 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we have, I had more hair and it was darker. I know that for sure. But in this past decade, tell us about that journey and what you’d love to acknowledge and celebrate in the past 10 years.

Melanie Midegs  

So I’d love to celebrate the fact that I just trust the process, and I trusted my dream. And even though, you know 10 years ago, I did just move to Brisbane. I ended up living at my Auntie’s place, sharing a bunk bed. You know, when I was 30, something like I was supposed to have my life together by them. And I was just like, What the hell is happening? I was working two jobs trying to get, you know, money together. And I, I celebrate the fact that these are not failures, it that is actually just pointing you in a new direction and giving you more strength to get things going, basically. Yeah, but the one thing I know, that I’ve always had is, is that desire that everything’s going to get better that’s never wavered within me, that makes sense, or that that passion that I have for making the world a better place, it’s never wavered. And I’ve always believed that there’s got to be a way, you know, just because someone says no, doesn’t mean, no, it’s like there’s got to be, there is a way.

Murray Guest  

Gotcha. And when you say trust the process, is that trusting how life’s unfolding and trusting with that positive anticipation, that positive thought that it’s all going to work out? Is that something that’s come to you more and more in the past decade?

Melanie Midegs  

That’s something that has come to me more recently. Yeah, I think it’s, that’s what I’ve learned. That’s definitely what I’ve learned is to trust it and know that it’s happening for a reason.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Okay. So now, I’ve loved exploring and discussing your past decade, your journey in Brisbane, and what that’s been like, and now living in Bali. Just how long have you been living in Bali for?

Melanie Midegs  

I’ve been here for five years now.

Murray Guest  

Five years, five years moving to six? Yes. Now, in the past five, six years, maybe the past decade, you’ve achieved some amazing results and amazing things with the work that you do. Let’s celebrate some of that. Let’s talk a bit about that. So tell me a bit about the work you do. And let’s celebrate that.

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah, you know the thing that I’m celebrating the most right now, and it is like something that I just pinch myself almost every day, is the fact that the world is waking up. And it is changing. Because when I started the Psychosomatics, so I did my training, and then I would be ringing my friends and going, can I do a face reading because I need to practice my work. And they’re like, oh, what? And they’re like, Yeah, okay. And so I do the face reading, and it’s related to the chakra system. And I would be talking about the chakras and then like, so, they were kind of interested, but they were just like, You’re crazy. You know, like, you know, that feeling when someone just walks away, and you’re like, okay, they think I’m crazy. And it’s really funny, because now I’ve had friends from the past actually starting to follow me. And they’re doing my courses now. And they want to learn more about this. Because it’s like, through technology and the advancements that we’ve had, we’ve got information at our fingertips. So it’s opened up the minds and hearts of people that think, oh, maybe there is another way that we can, we can do these things.

Murray Guest  

And so what I’m hearing is the the insights and understanding that you’ve got are more accepted and more embraced now than what they were some time ago.

Melanie Midegs  

Only. And, you know, when I first came to Bali, it was too, I just kind of had enough of the Western world, it was like, I just need a place where I can nurture and bring my my business idea to life basically. And, you know, when I came here, instantly, I understood what feminine energy was about, I already knew what it was about, but I felt it here. And then after being here for three years, I you know, when you’re somewhere for long enough, you kind of have your own belief patterns. And I was like, yeah, the Western world, they have no idea like, it’s not happening. And I went to Singapore, to a conscious living festival just a couple of years ago, and they were talking about, talking about sustainability and humanity, sort of problems in the business world and I was just like, holy crap. Like, they’re here. Like that having, at least they’re having a conversation. Yeah. And that’s when I was like, this is this is good. It’s happened. It’s and so I’m really glad I didn’t give up on what my idea was and how to bring it up because it hasn’t been easy. You know, I have had many people question what I’m doing and you know, or palm it to the side and things like that. But now I feel like you know, it is more widely accepted because I have been to places like Lululemon in Singapore and even invited to the Chamber of Commerce to you know, present this work to them and they loved it as well. And I was like, wow, like the world is accepting new ideas and new ways of doing things.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And I can imagine that the term of soft skills of that’s applied and thrown around so much around the understanding people that their soft skills, they’re actually quite hard. Because we’re talking about people and understanding people, but they’re also so important. And what I know from this work you do, it gives us a real insight into understanding ourselves and those around us at a deeper level.

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah, it’s funny, as soon as you said, soft skills, I got this, like you know, my, my core message right now is that humanity and sustainability needs to come before economics, there is so much education that needs to happen around that. And but it’s good, at least that the conversations are happening. And that, you know, at least people are being you know, business owners are becoming more conscious, you know, even just the fact that they have to become sustainable now, because of all the climate change issues that we face, something starting that. But, you know, I don’t think a company can become truly sustainable unless its people are conscious. And that’s the thing. That’s the little piece that I think is still missing.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I think that’s a really good perspective that we’ve been shifting the focus to, from profit, to the planet, to sustainability, to understanding our impact is organizations on the world. Yet, there’s still the people element that’s amongst all that, that’s still not quite there yet, there’s still a lot more work to be done. There are certainly a lot more work to be done on the climate as well. I’m looking out my window right now with bushfires not far away. So. But yeah.

Melanie Midegs  

And this is the thing, I think, to like 10 years ago, even though, you know, I care about the world. At that point in time, I didn’t care about the world, because my life was so shit. Yeah, but that was basically what it was. And it’s hard to care about a bigger thing, when our, our personal place is not feeling safe. It’s not feeling great. It’s not feeling whatever. And so I think that is what I’m celebrating is that now I’m at a point where I can easily see the bigger picture and may start making more of an impact on a bigger level, because I’ve kind of sorted my own self out.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, gotcha. Gotcha. Totally understand that. Yeah. And I can, I can totally relate to that. Now, let’s look forward. So we’ve had a bit of a chat about the past and right now. And you know, we’re at 2019. We’re heading into the roaring 20s. Maybe we’re going to go back 100 years and have some cool clothes and haircuts. I don’t know. 

Melanie Midegs  

I love the 20s. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah, it was a good time, from what I believe. But what do you see the next decade looking like and what are you envisaging? And what would you love to achieve?

Melanie Midegs  

So I I’m excited, I actually feel the same as I did when I was 21. When the year 2000 happened, because I was a little bit naive to the world at that point. And really excited and like it was like infinite possibilities. And for the first time since then, that’s what I feel like right now. That there is infinite possibilities that what we can create, I feel like the people that are complacent, they’re going to start having a really hard time, like the people that refuse to do things differently. The people that refuse to look after themselves, life is going to start to become really, really difficult. Whereas those of us who have started that wake up process, it’s actually going to become more. It doesn’t mean it’s not going to have its challenges, but it’s going to be more free flowing. There’s a bit more agility there to sort of work with the environment around us rather than thinking this is how it’s gonna be. So I feel like, yeah, there’s still a few years of you know, and you look around the world, and there’s all sorts of stuff rising to the surface, like it’s just bubbling consistently, I think, found out about Bikram or whatever the other day as well. And it becomes tiring to hear all these stories, but I just see it as a detox process. It’s like the world has to detox like or enter detox, all this stuff has to come to the surface for us to be able to clear it out.

Murray Guest  

Do you think over the next few years, we’re going to see more stuff coming to the surface to detox, as part of that process to help us move forward as humanity?

Melanie Midegs  

Yes, because just say that makes you start questioning your own ethics. It starts you asking yourself the questions, how authentic am I being with what I’m doing? And so it’s kind of like it needs to happen. Because that’s how, you know, consciousness as a whole is gonna rise around the world, no matter if you’re a mom or a dad, a kid, business owner, like we’ve all got to play a part to play in it all.

Murray Guest  

So Tammy talks to me sometimes about the pendulum swing. And she says like that pendulum has been one way, and now it’s starting to swing back another way, which is I can imagine some of that disruption, the toxicity stuff coming to the surface, and then it’s going to maybe come back and balance out again.

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah. And, you know, I think that that’s because that’s when we, we do that internally within ourselves as well. You know, I think, I don’t know about your circles, but I know my circles, it’s like, holy moly. I’ve gone through so much in the last couple of years of growth of whatever. And it’s like preparing us for a more harmonious future.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, I definitely think so. And I’m seeing more of that. And I think online, there’s more of that happening. And I think that human connection is certainly something which is, as much as we got the digital age and that digital connection, that human connection is something which is just coming back around more and more and more.

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah. And, you know, the beauty about artificial intelligence and technology is that it is actually going to push us to that point where we must do meditation, when we have to unplug. Because I know I got to my limit recently. And I was like, I just, I cannot be on this all the time. And so I think more and more people start doing that as well.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. So what about your personal goals? If we just put it out there to the to the ether, to the universe? What would you love to achieve? 

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah well, I was loving it when you asked me this question, because I was like, Yeah, what do I want to achieve? And I’m sitting there, I was writing down the number. And I was like, I want to affect and help change a million lives by 2030. And I really, in my core belief that like, if you asked me that, so five years ago, I could have said the number but you know, when you say a number, and you’re just like, yeah, yeah, whereas now, I feel like I know, I know how I can do. And in fact, it’s, it’s not, it probably could even be more than that. But really, to support them in shifting and coming back to that sense of place where they do feel good within themselves, so then they can give back to the world.

Murray Guest  

And when you work with people, when you help people, when you help people come back centered, grounded, and tapping into that. What does that look like, in the way that you work with people?

Melanie Midegs  

Yes, so I’ve created a course I guess I’m going to call it, the business chakra system. First of all, it’s about awareness. So at the moment, I’m doing a lot of things to bring people’s awareness to themselves, like. We’ve got so many executives, and, you know, high corporate managers that come here, just going, Whoa, I need a break, I need to sort this out. This is not working for me. So working with them, just to reassure them that everything’s gonna be okay. And just showing them that there’s a new way that you can come back into business and still be successful still be part of that, that sort of area, but do it more from the heart, know that you make different decisions becoming emotionally intelligent to do. So I teach chakra philosophy for business in the online sense, like an online platform. But then I also love doing talking and running face to face workshops as well. So that’s the main ways that people work.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, fantastic. Now, if I gave you the opportunity to have a sky writer, and that sky writer can put your message over the world and everybody around the world can see that message. They can’t avoid it, it’s there. And it’s environmentally friendly, might add as well. But it’s there. Okay. And this is, Mel, your message, and everyone’s going to see that. What message would you love that to be?

Melanie Midegs  

It would have to be that humanity and sustainability must come before economics. It’s that’s why, because economics is currently number one. That is why we’re in this chaotic turmoil place of turmoil, right? When we put humanity and sustainability first, and it starts with the individual, it’s not even from a company point of view. It’s like when you put your own humanity and sustainability first, before economics, that’s when the balance is going to come into play. You know, so I’m hardcore about that, if I could, if that was, if those values changed, hopefully before 2030. But if they changed by the end, by the end of the next decade, I will be, my work is done. I’ll be like, we’ve done it.

Murray Guest  

Yes. Awesome. I feel that I can feel your energy when you talk about that and the impact that can make. And there’s some companies doing some great work about around that. And some people doing some amazing things to raise that awareness. But I think your core message there, it starts with the individual actions that we can all take to make that change.

Melanie Midegs  

Well, there’s no separation between you and your business. That’s what, that’s like my tagline. So, you know, your business might be running great. But if your relationships and other places aren’t, guess what?

Murray Guest  

There’s no separation between you and your business. And I, from what I’m hearing you say, that goes for no matter if you run your own business, or you’re an employee in an organization.Yeah. Now, where is the number one best place for people to connect with you online?

Melanie Midegs  

They can come to my website, which is seedtosoul.com.au. And from there, it’s got all my social media places, it’s got loads of information about chakra philosophy for business and psychosomatic therapy as well.

Murray Guest  

So now, I’ve absolutely love connecting with you today, talking about the past your journey, the knowledge that you have, and how you impart that and inspire people with that. I’ve also loved the experience I had from learning about myself from you earlier this year. And the impact I saw in live real time with people going, Ah, that’s why oh, now I understand. Ah, that’s, that’s why I do this now. And that depth of understanding they’ll get in quite quickly about themselves and others. And your vision for humanity and sustainability, before profitability before business, I think is such a strong message. And I look forward to connecting with you again early next year to really talk about what the sacred chakra philosophy looks like in business and how we can help more people understand what that looks like for them.

Melanie Midegs  

Yeah, I’d love to. I’d love to thank you so much.

Murray Guest  

Wonderful. Thank you so much. See you.