Episode 83 – Peter Karounos | Personal Development

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In this episode I chat with Peter Karounos, a consultant, strategist, motivator, leader and entrepreneur. Peter helps people, teams and organisations in business to start, grow, improve, perform and change in areas such as culture, leadership and general business.

This discussion is focused around personal development and the skills needed to effectively be able to work on yourself, how we can become trapped into doing personal development for the sake of it, and how the best way to integrate and activate your insights and learnings is to talk about them with others.

Key episode highlights include:

  • Trust equals consistent, positive behaviour over time.
  • There needs to come a time where you start to activate the work you’ve done on yourself, and not just continually be in a state of seeking.
  • Look at values as emotional states. Then ask, what emotional states drive what you do, and what draws you to (or away from) something.
  • What’s the resistance that is stopping you from going deeper?
  • Reflection is key: take time out either weekly or monthly to review where you’ve been and where you’re headed.

If you’d like to find out more about Peter and the work he does with teams and individuals, head on over to peterkarounos.com.

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Murray Guest  00:01

Pete, welcome to the podcast. It’s lovely to see you.


Peter Karounos  00:05

It’s good to see you to Murray. It’s been a while, but but glad to be having a chat with you.


Murray Guest  00:10

A formal Murray, nice. That’s okay. That’s how you’re feeling.


Peter Karounos  00:19

Good, think we’re having a pre chat and saying I’m slightly nervous or nervously excited. But yeah, I guess in the in the lead up to having a chat, you know, just being ready to share some insights from my experience and have a chat with you about yours and really just share something with the broader community it would be would be great to do. So very excited. thank thank you for having me.


Murray Guest  00:43

Yeah. How would you describe your 2020?


Peter Karounos  00:50

That’s a really good question. It’s a bit of a mix, isn’t it? I mean, there’s, obviously it’s been tough for everyone. But you know, I think part of the line that I’ve gone about my personal development, talk about this, as you know, throughout a podcast, but there’s always opportunity through change modes. And I think, you know, it’s that glass half full, half empty. And it’s about how we how we did it, and it’s required all of us to be adaptable, think differently about business, in different events. So, you know, look at look at what we do in a different way, brought greater efficiencies in many ways. So I think we have the option don’t need to look at it as as a real negative or as a positive. And I think that sort of talks to what we’re going to be talking about, as well as psychology, as we go into learning and development, professional development is so important, in terms of what we get out of it. So it’s been a, it’s been a big one. And and I think what we can do now to get ready for 2021, having got some lessons along the way is going to be really important.


Murray Guest  01:53

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about boundaries. And this is popping into my head just a bit lately to set boundaries has been a bit of a theme this year. So there’s been physical boundaries with social distancing. There’s boundaries around emotional boundaries, with how we are connecting over zoom, and people and teams and different platforms and working from home, and even boundaries of I’m letting my teammates, and my fellow colleagues into my life, through working from home, but I still gotta have some boundaries. And knowing where those boundaries lie and don’t lie. So I think that’s been really interesting. For me, I mean, think about boundaries for my own perspective, and my clients and I work with and yeah, it’s one of those ones, I’m still mulling over but I think it’s a bit of a theme.


Peter Karounos  02:45

It’s a good insight. And and that sort of talks to where I was coming out from for it this is caused caused us to be a bit more reflective about what’s important, and how we manage these things. So it’s tough work to look inward, and, and adapt and change. But on the other side of that is the goal. So I think certainly those boundaries are important, but also challenging them as well. And asking deep, those deeper questions around what they mean and how to do things better and different.


Murray Guest  03:13

Yeah, and you and I are both passionate, I know about personal development. And if I look back in my, you know, growing up in the 80s, personal development was just some weird thing that I didn’t actually didn’t even know about it. You know, it just didn’t exist. And to be honest, I think my earliest thought of what personal development was was, are you buy a set of Tony Robbins cassettes or CDs, you know, or something like that. And, and it was all about making money. There was always for some reason that early thought and personal development was money related. I don’t know why. But then, you know, when I was in my early 30s, I got to meet with some really good people to help me understand about what personal development is and how there’s a real opportunity to, you know, understand, unpack and explore, and, you know, go to levels of depth. And I’m still way, way way on that journey. Tell me, Pete, for you. How did you sort of find yourself in this personal development journey?


Peter Karounos  04:21

I love that question. Because I actually anticipate you’re going to have something like that, Murray, I’ve written everything right here. And what would be great, I’ll answer that in just a sec, great to actually start with a with a question, what is personal development? Hmm. So, you know, is personal development going along to a training program or as you said, getting a classic video, whatever it might be, now, it’s just watching those. And then, you know, I’ve ticked the box so to speak, or is it a bit deeper dive? And I think it’s all relative certainly have many conversations with my wife, just thinking about, you know, levels of personal development and and The value of going a little bit deeper, even though it’s a bit harder and more challenging. As I said earlier, it’s the gold on the other side of that. So if we can be prepared to go a bit deeper and go beyond just the training, things like asking our family members or peers for feedback about how we do things that can be fairly vulnerable. And it takes a bit of courage to do that. But if we can separate ego from, you know, from what we’re trying to do at a deeper level, then it is going to benefit we know that. So I think that question of what his personal developments are really important starting point to answer your question, how did it start? Well, probably I mean, you know, without going into those long stories that you have with the dad, back in the day, I think I’ll start at the three very quickly, but always ask the question, Murray, when I was at school, and I remember asking the question, I asked Mum, mum, what’a year 3 like, or what’s year 4 like, or year 5 like? I had to know, I always had to know, what was coming up, what was playing, how I needed to be, and so on. And there were nine questions at that time, I guess I was anxious about what was coming up. But I guess I started to ask questions. And that’s how the journey started. Really just ask them questions on myself a lot of people. I got into year 8. Listen, South Australia schooling now as you go from year 7 to year 8. Right. And everyone’s sort of changed, Murray, people were acting differently, you know, peer groups, were set up and pick what you thought you were friends with you seven, you know, had different cliques in different groups. And I found that fascinating. I just thought, Well, why is that person like that this year, and last year that like that? So I started asking these questions at a deeper, deeper level. And it got into about year 9 and and I was showing a bit of promise with Australian Football, that identified that. And I was only having a chat yesterday with my dentist about, you know, the same question that you just asked me, she goes, What were you doing in your high school years? And I said, Well, I remember being in the boardroom with, with my dad on the weekends, doing a strategic plan about how it’s gonna crack the AFL, so, my weekends were spent writing on a whiteboard, strategic planning, you know, personal development, what do I need to do to get ready at a very young age of 30, and 40, in this space. So, at the time, I kind of, you know, resisted it and resented it, because I just wanted to be going out with with my mates and friends and just socializing, which I did as well. But, but I think that exposure and looking back now, I think that for us, I think we do when we resist things, when we’re young, we look back and go, actually, that was really, really good. Look back and thought that was probably the most significant moment for me is those sessions that we used to do with that, we would sit talk, reflect, unpack, you know, really, really assess. So were really, really valuable. But the starting point was questions, and awesome, really, really good questions, even a basic question. But if you stay at the start of the journey, asking a question like, how am I going, you know, what is working? What is good about what I do? What, what could I do better? Just those basic questions can get you started. And then we start to go down the rabbit hole of this wonderful world, which is personal development. So that’s when it started for me, Murrahy, you know, I guess I was very lucky along the journey to have exposure to through football and through through sport and asking questions, other people, mentors, and so having mentors along the way, is really, really important as well.


Murray Guest  08:37

Yeah, and I think you’re hinting there for me too. Or highlighting, I should say, the impact parenting has around some of those frames and way of being that we pass on to our children. And, I mean, I think about, I’m just picturing you having those conversations with your dad, you know, 14, 15 years of age. And I know you as a person that’s quite future focused, and a futurist about Okay, what’s next? And how do we create this new future that that’s within a company or for yourself? or for other people? And, yeah, maybe getting insight as to some of that was coming from that way of being or those messages from your dad, all those years ago?


Peter Karounos  09:22

Absolutely. It was all about that. And I think, you know, life circumstances at the time, shaped that to me. So growing up in a, you know, in a, you know, fairly, I’d say changeable youth where, you know, moving from house to house and, you know, not necessarily having certainty, you know, with things changing around you sort of look for those answers. So, yeah, it’s good that can come from those challenges, too, isn’t it?


Murray Guest  09:54

Yeah. And, and, and, of course, that that passion for Questions and unsettling people led you to psychology, which has led you to work all around the world and helping different organizations. And lots of conversations, you must have had so many conversations. Can I ask for your personal development journey? Is there some standout sort of things you’ve done along the way, which have really, you know, shifted your way of thinking, I did landmark, it must have been 15 years ago. And for those that don’t know, landmark is one of those intensive three day programs, I think we kicked off at 8am to 10pm, for three days straight, couldn’t leave the room, they may even lock the doors. Peter, I think at one point, got to stay in there. But it was one of those programs that really shifted some of those programs that I was telling myself that I developed over the years. What if you’ve got any of those sort of things that stand out for you as well


Peter Karounos  10:58

do to come to mind, probably, if I go back to United, I remember seeing sports I want to get in sports psychology. Yeah. And again, back in the night, it was a significant year for me, dad took me to see a sports psychologist and I remember him doing a little activity with me, which is fascinating. And for anyone who’s listening to this podcast, it’s a simple activity that you can do at home. Essentially, what he got was a piece of string 30 centimeters long on the end of the string, a ball of bluetac. And essentially, it stopped me to hold my arm out straight, holding the stream to the blue tech at the bottom. And got me to close my eyes. just visualize that blue tech, going one direction, clockwise or anti clockwise didn’t matter. And that was it. Just close your eyes. Visualize, imagine that bluetac moving. And just constantly thinking exactly that, imagine it moving, see it moving clockwise, see it, rotating, see it swinging gradually larger and larger. And after about five minutes, I open my eyes, and I saw this blue text swinging. And that was for me, like, just something else. I just thought, Wow, how amazing is that. And then we talked about concepts of visualization and imagery and the power of of visualizing imagining this ideal state plus desired state, that was a really significant moment for me, in getting me think about the power of the mind, and the power of the mind, over the body, as well. And as we know, there’s plenty of research and studies that have been shown to show the power of visualization and imagery. More recently, if I sort of bookend that, that was probably the most significant starting point. And more recently, having gone to Tony Robbins, date with destiny, which is a six day program, yep. Start at 10 o’clock in the morning and finish it around about one or two in the morning. They’ve big days, but really, really going deep, deep into personal development, and just seeing the, you know, seeing it from someone else. And reputedly, you know, one of the best things in the world at doing the stuff was fascinating to see, yeah, well, you know, there are layers to this, you know, how deep. Do you want to go? You know, I think with PD, as long as you got a good handle on I think you can ever go too deep. Maybe you can. But I think you know, obviously there’s a there’s a, there’s a level at which you want to start to get some return on investment and activate that person to development not just be in constant state of personal development. But it’s really fascinating. So you’re talking about values, what happens? Oftentimes, we look at values and say that they are things that are important to us, but you know, Tony talks about them as being emotional states. So what are those emotional states that drive? Everything that you do? And what are the emotional states that draw you to something, but also the emotional states that you want to move away from? because both are important? And both srve their right. So they will probably two significant bits that that sort of got me Murray in my early years.


Murray Guest  14:02

Can I ask when you think about the depth of personal development? I’ve come across people in my circles, friends, family, you know, clients or work with where it’s like, I only want to go, just just scratch the surface. I just want to you know, scratch a little bit or maybe not even scratch the surface and others want to go deep. From a psychology point of view, what do you reckon is going on there around? I think about fear, I think about, you know, fear about vulnerability and some of those things. But what’s your thoughts around that resistance to want to, you know, explore and maybe go deeper unpack to some depth?


Peter Karounos  14:45

Oh, isn’t that a great question? Because that’s the question. We all should be asking ourselves when we’re doing this. Yeah. What is getting in the way it’s good. Sometimes fear sometimes it’s, the cup is full. And you know, it’s how do I make time for this? I have Check yesterday with a client. And we talked about that it’s almost a self fulfilling prophecy. I don’t do personal development, because I don’t have time. Hmm. Maybe you don’t have time because you’re not doing personal development. Right. So it becomes the chicken and the egg thing. And this is where you take a bit of a leap of faith with with the stuff that we do, because there’s not a tangible what for me anyway, there’s not a tangible measure, we feel good after we’ve done some training. We’ve got some new information we’ve got you know, we’ve done that a bit that’s kick started the process, but then that process that follows after is where all the work is done. So what are the reasons? Yes, fear can be it can be a reason. And the fact that we’ve got just so much going on in our pipe, could be another reason. The other one is actually not knowing how to do personal development, like it’s a skill to know how to develop yourself. And often people don’t know what that skill is. And so we’ve talked about some of those already having good mentors around you. Sitting down and making time every week to think about the week that was in the week that’s coming, or the month that was in the month that’s coming however, you want to do it. Reading books, as you say, the starting point for me is always get out a piece of paper. And so what what is my personal department? What are the things to do? You don’t have to make that or a piece to begin with? Because we know if you set yourself up for something to be that, you know, it’s going to feel like it’s overwhelming. So we look at the little wins that we can get along the way.


Murray Guest  16:28

I’m also thinking about you’re not doing personal development for personal development sake. Yeah. Like, why am I actually investing this time and energy into myself? Like, what am I like, what’s the future state I’m working towards? Let’s get clarity in that. What’s that vision? Like? What am I working towards or working from? And now Okay, so what’s the development I want to invest in to help me do that?


Peter Karounos  16:49

Yeah. Absolutely.


Murray Guest  16:54

And, and I mean, some simple strategies, like you’re saying, like taking the time out to reflect weekly, monthly. I mean, you’ve done some great work with Port Adelaide over the years. And I think about high performance teams, they get together every Monday morning after weekend’s game. What worked on the field? What didn’t? how we’re going to integrate that into this week’s training plan, how we’re going to set ourselves up for success this week. And what I think about is, a lot of people watch their favorite team and go, wow, you know, they’re on fire. They’ve got it all together. But you’ve got to do that. How do I do that for myself as well?


Peter Karounos  17:32

Yeah. You’re right. Yeah, having those reviews and also being a bit kind to self serve, Murray, we know, you use, like football club as an example. You and I have obviously been fortunate enough to hear about Richmond football club journey too. I mean, their journey started, you know, before they started getting the success, they there was a four or five year leading to get to that point where some tough conversations we had with other people, honest, you know, direct confronting conversations, but are designed for achieving the greater good. So the be inclined part is to recognize that the results, they will come, but there’s a process to it. And it does take a bit of time to get there often. I think we live in such a what’s the right way, for instance, decently gratifying. Now, when we want the results right now, but I don’t know that many things work that way. They take time and take nurturing, and so he


Murray Guest  18:31

can’t Photoshop your personal development.


Peter Karounos  18:35

Very, very good.


Murray Guest  18:36

You can quote me on that one. Yeah. Yeah, but no, you’re exactly right. Time pour. Information overload. I want it now. But it takes time.


Peter Karounos  18:49



Murray Guest  18:49

Yeah. The other one there that maybe resistance is, I don’t see the value in it. Yeah. I don’t know what I don’t know. So I’m not going to do it. Yeah. And one of my coaches, I love a quote that he shared with me, or what it is he one of his is put the critic in the corner and do the work. So sometimes we go into that inner voice of saying, you know, all the critical thoughts of challenging it, yes, they’re helpful and to help you be wary, but put that aside, and actually, you know, if you want to know, give it a try, you know, start to start to have a look.


Peter Karounos  19:29

Yeah. Was that leap of faith that we talked about isn’t apparent. And you do not mean, oftentimes what goes you know, when we’re working in the space that we’re working with, with organization when when tough times come? What are a few areas that seem to get put on the backburner? It’s training and development marketing. Yep. And you look at me, actually, during tough times, they’re probably the most important things you want to be doing at helping people get through those tough times to stabilize things. So when you do come out of that swing You’re in a better position than others. And I think that’s true not just for organizations, but true for individuals as well. So during this difficult time, how important challenging time? How important is it to reflect and say, How do I need to what do I need to do to be ready for when you know, when we start to reconnect, or whatever it might be, you know, those things are really, really important, but helping people see the value, you can understand why can’t you marry because it’s invisible person, you don’t see the immediate results for but we do look around us. And we see examples of teams or people that are doing things well. What are they doing? Clearly they doing some things that are helping them to do that? And inevitably, like, yeah, like a fight, but we know that these examples that don’t work?


Murray Guest  20:52

Can I ask Pete thinking about the clients you’ve been working with this year? And what you’ve been seeing that the best leaders are doing through this challenging year of 2020? What are some of the themes that have really emerged?


Peter Karounos  21:12

Yeah, that’s a good question. Really trying to keep people together, keep people connected. We don’t want to run a pressure, we don’t have a tension, there is a stressor under pressure, you know, your muscles tighten up, you, your zone of focus becomes very narrow, you tend to see less of what’s around you. That’s that’s our normal physiological response to stress and pressure. And if we translate that to change in organizations is the same thing happens, right? It’s very easy for people to disconnect. Just, you know that, oh, when you’re holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Yep. I just focus on what I’ve got to do. And that’s got its place and its importance. But I think leaders who have seen that and understood that and really tried to keep people connected through this has been a really, really key thing. That’s what effective leaders have been doing. And also asking those questions, Murray, about what people what they need, what people need, what the organization’s need, right now. But also, you know, six months ahead, you know, starting to straddle both. What do we need now? Where are we hitting six months time? What does all that look like? They’re probably the two key things that stand out. Yeah.


Murray Guest  22:30

Yeah, I would like to think what the best leaders have also been doing, which I think links to your first point is getting back to the real people focus of their leadership. they’ve realized how important people as a whole are not just, you know, Pete, or Murray, the worker, the employee, the team member, but you as you and me as me and how we are complex, complicated people that have needs that have, you know, all part of our lives outside of work, and we’re trying to get things done and deliver and everything. And the best leaders are going, Okay, I’m considering all that. So how do we we consider that and create a space where we connect, and work towards where we’re going. Great that hope. And I hope that all continues into 2021.


Peter Karounos  23:24

Yeah, yeah, it’s a good point, getting to know people outside of work. I think there’s this, there’s that assumption that sits there. When we’re in a workplace, we see a worker, and we treat them as a worker. But we know that they’ve got everyone else has got challenges, just like we do, and many cases more. So if we can get to know people at a deeper level. And really, really connect them again, the upswing of that is better leadership, because we maintain that human connection with people. Yeah, it seems so obvious. But how often do we miss that? Because become so task focused, I gotta get this task done, I’m gonna get that task done. And then we activate those parts of the brain, which is just problem solving, problem solving, problem solving. But we missed the opportunities to connect to recognize the performance to get to know people, at a personal level to build those relationships. And that’s where the work for me is, you know, Murray, that’s, that’s leadership, isn’t it?


Murray Guest  24:21

Yeah. Yeah. And I think about the foundation of a team. And whether that’s a sports team or an organizational team and trust, or a family team, and through connecting with a person and understanding them, and, and empowering them to do their work wherever they may need to physically be. Yeah, it’s creating greater trust, which is, you know, that platform you think about Patrick Patrick lencioni, his work of the Five Dysfunctions of a team, you know, trust is the absolute foundation.


Peter Karounos  24:52

Yeah. Got a formula for trust tomorrow for the listeners. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, trust equals consistent Positive Behavior over time.


Murray Guest  25:02

Trust equals consistent Positive Behavior over time.


Peter Karounos  25:05

Yeah. The theory is that trust is something that happens over a period of time. And we need to be consistent with people. If we say, Murray, I’m going to deliver this for you at this time, then I really need to deliver on that. Right? If I guarantee that I’m going to do something or resolve something, you know, and that happens over a sequence of times, there’s little conversations that you asked that earlier in the conversation, you said, How many conversations have you had over your time? It’s all those conversations, and it’s one at a time, and it feels painstaking. It’s like, so you’re telling me that I have to have all these little conversations with people about little bits and pieces? And we’re saying yes, that’s, that’s leadership. That’s, that’s being there for people that’s having those conversations that’s helping to plant the seeds of things that you want people to think about? And do you see all those little concessions?


Murray Guest  25:57

Yeah, yeah. Um, and, well, I’d like to think that with what’s happened in 2020, that the there’s been an acceleration of the speed of trust. So one of my clients they had, I think it was closer with like a zero working from home policy, like it was a your work, you need to be in the office, and COVID hits and hang on, you’ve got to work from home. So how do we do that? How do we actually manage that how to, well, actually, we now need to empower we need to trust we need to have more regular frequent communication, I need to know my people. And I’ll tell you why people are actually performing better than before, when I just turning up in the office. Yeah,


Peter Karounos  26:40

yeah. Future.


Murray Guest  26:44

Personal Development, though, going back full circle, and something that we’re both passionate about, and whether that’s personal or professional, there’s too much of ticking the box, done the leadership course, you’ve done the the off site, whatever it is, what do you know, helps keep the learnings, rail that helps it stick what works.


Peter Karounos  27:10

When I was working for a company that 10 years ago, 12 years ago, and we did a lot of leadership programs, globally with organizations and I was fortunate to have a really, really good mentor at the time named George and, and we talked about this concept called event and process. I think if you type into Google, you can also find a little humorous video on it. If you type in event versus process personal development. So two people, one who comes up in a flashy, uniform, and he’s meant to be the event. Yeah. And then you’ve got someone who’s a little bit more dour and introverted, reflective. And he’s the process may talk about the importance of both of them. And so an event is something that kicks start to develop. So what’s an event an event is a workshop that you might go to, it’s a podcast that you might listen to, it’s a book that you might read, it’s all those things that initiates the personal development, the process is the thing that happens after that. And so having in place an action plan, you know, a personal action plan that really documents what you’re going to do. And when I’m getting a coach or a mentor, or both someone who you can bounce off and just keep you honest with this stuff becomes important. Those weekly or monthly reviews about how you’re going what’s working well, what’s getting in the way, what do I commit to do the following week? Now, some simple questions, that’s the process. And so having both events and processes becomes important in the personal development journey. Yeah, yeah, I


Murray Guest  28:47

would add, and I love the event and process as a framework. And I think there is too much of are you’ve done the event? Yes, tick the box. I actually recall back when I was in not my last role role before and managing training and confined space. We had someone breached the confined space, we need to send him back to a confined space training. Okay. And then that person was back, operating, breached the confined space, again, didn’t follow the protocols, you know, something, okay, send them back to confined space. So at this point, they’ve done the three are confined space training three times. The answer is not sending them back to the training. There’s definitely something else at play, you know, is it this there’s some level of human factors, is there something else that’s not sticking for him? Is there something else that is inhibiting him locking in the process and the understanding of the requirement, but it’s not going back and doing the event again?


Peter Karounos  29:55

Yep. That’s a really good point. It actually is. A little note here. It reminds me of performance management processes. And I was quite yesterday and was coaching her about having these performance conversations with her team. And we talked about a form that she’s got. And I said, Look, one of the biggest problems with performance management processes is so detailed, that it becomes a, it becomes about the process as opposed to compensation. So, you know, how we tick this box? Yes. Have we done that box? Yes. Okay, we finished the performance conversation, performance  management meeting form, we’re done. But we missed the intent of the conversation first place. And the intent of that conversation is to help people recognize where they’re at and what he may not always feel so don’t use it for, yeah, connect with the person in a proper conversation. And that’s the same for training and development as well, I think, where we can keep in mind, the intent and the essence of any training that we’re doing. That is just so important. So you know, and I’ll do the same when I’m reflecting on myself. And questions that I’m asking or things over what what’s the real, what’s the real takeaway here? I’m developing skills around leadership and around communication or problem solving whatever it might be, but what’s the essence of it? What What does it mean for my growth, and personal development? And so essence and intent are really important with meeting any personal development that we’re doing, because if we miss that, you know, we don’t get the maximum value from it.


Murray Guest  31:29

Yeah. Can I just say, with performance management, one of my guiding principles is, there should never be any surprise in a performance management discussion. Yeah. As a leader, if there’s someone in your team that’s doing really well, they should already know. If there’s someone in your team, and they’re not performing to the standards you require or need, they should already know, the performance management discussion is just finalized and not sorry, not finalizing, formalizing, I should say, formalizing the discussions you’ve had throughout the year. If you get to the end of the year, and I’m seeing you down, saying, hey, Pete, there’s some things you’re not performing on. And I’m gonna say, You’re not meeting expectations. And this is out of the blue, there’s something terribly wrong with your leadership.


Peter Karounos  32:19

Performance Management, in inverted commas, all conversations are happening all the time aren’t they Murray.


Murray Guest  32:23

Yeah, that is exactly right.


Peter Karounos  32:25

Not a sit down event, once a year. It’s an ongoing thing. And that comes back to our conversation around leadership. That’s, that’s what it’s about. There’s many conversations.


Murray Guest  32:34

The other thing when we talk about helping, development stick for me, I’m a talker, I like to talk through my ideas, I like to talk through a lesson I’ve had. And for me, what I think works really well, and I think for others is talking through what your, your insight is, and sharing that. And even there’s a quote, which is the best way to learn something is to teach others. So after you go to a training course, or you listen to a podcast, or read a book, whatever, talk about it, share it with any of your later with your team, you know, or with your team mates, or whoever it might be, because that’s going to then socialize it, and help login for you and also for them.


Peter Karounos  33:23

And because a cup gets full, very, very quickly, having a little space that you can just, you know, whether it’s a word document or a diary, or whatever it is that you just write, the word inciting becomes really, really important as well, I certainly like to do that. No, I think I’ve read a few books that are very dear to me, like the power of now. Or you know how attraction works. And all those things and aren’t going to read the power of now about 30 or 40 times. You know, making little notes and so on and just reconcile, they’re constantly wrapping it up and new insights, new learnings from that. So having a little document becomes really, really important. Just to keep it front of mine.


Murray Guest  34:03

Yeah. I am, I think did raise a good point there. And I’ve seen this come up in some of the programs I’ve facilitated over the years, where you’re bringing a concept to a group, and members of the team or the participants are like our seniors before and they start to switch off. Yeah, yeah, I think you and I both know that there’s a we can learn something from a different set of eyes, you’re in a different place. But also what’s the perspective you can bring to other people in the room? I’ve watched movies more than once. Some movies stacks of times. It’s the same thing with our learning. Just because you’ve heard at once 10 years ago, doesn’t mean you’ve you’ve you might know it, but do you really get it?


Peter Karounos  34:50

Yeah. This a little, maybe half an hour I think about oftentimes when, when we we bring topics up and we say who’s done the Myers Briggs? Everyone put their hand up and say what type of you and then their responses? I think this is it’s bleeding, it’s playing into what we’re saying is, and it’s, you know, I mean, we’ve been doing this for 20 plus years, we don’t expect people to just walk along to a session, do a personality profile relationship tool, and expect them to know it. It’s not like that. I mean, you know, how often we do things. And we’re still learning about these tools. So it is it is ongoing, it’s constantly developing. So it’s a rhetorical question when I asked that question in workshops, because even if you have done it many, many times, there’s always a new insight that you’re gonna get, there’s always an opportunity to help other people and through the helping of other people, you’re going to develop a new insight with it. Yep. And that that becomes so important, doesn’t it? You know, that constant, that that that mindset of continuous improvement is really important, and we say it. But what does it really really mean? It means picking up watching the movie, again, picking up the book, again, looking at it from a different perspective, training someone else or coaching someone else, giving it a go practicing it in real time. We do conversations training with people. And then the next bit after that is, well, how do I use this? Well, you basically take the model out before you have a conversation with someone, you map it against that, that model, and then you try it. And then after that, you come back to your notes. And you look at it. That’s that’s the bits. That’s the work.


Murray Guest  36:26

Yeah. And and doing the work. Yeah. And the thing that I’m thinking about as we’re talking through this as well, is how important a growth mindset is the that mindset, which I’ll be very open and say it’s something which you know, 20 years ago, was something that I was starting to learn and understand. And still, you know, sometimes I’ll have a closed mindset around some opinions and things, but when I know I’m in that growth mindset and helping others be in that, that’s where, you know, some real learning happens.



Yeah, yeah.


Murray Guest  37:06

What do you think, is the future of learning when we think about this, because what I’m feeling is the old kind of concept of personal development of professional development being separate, they’re all blending together in some way? What are your thoughts?


Peter Karounos  37:24

That’s a really good question. I love the old stuff, the original stuff, the stuff that’s been done many, many years ago. And I do enjoy rehashing that, but obviously, you know, we have to balance that with new insights that we’re getting as well. You know, using remember a good colleague of ours, that that obviously, you met too, recently, Bekwho brought to us was heartmath, that product, heart rhythms with your thoughts that you’re having and I just thought isn’t that amazing? Like, the more we can use technology to supplement or facilitate our learning and development. And that’s fantastic. That’s it’s such a great product. So you know, just thinking innovation, literally thinking innovation, how do I do this? How can I do this differently, do this better, without losing the principles that we get from, you know, proven methods, I think balancing that with technology becomes important. Sharing insights, these sorts of conversations go a long way from other people. Most of my learning and development has been that profiling. At a young age it was profiling what makes this organization successful, what makes that person successful borrowing the best bits of people and putting that into a bit of a melting pot men say what from this do I want to adopt for myself? So you know, if we can be smarter and present alone, by profiling people, teams and organizations that are successful, that for me is a really important next step as


Murray Guest  38:50

well. And what I take from that is that we can learn so much from so many different areas. And, and and not trying to be whatever it is like like Company A not trying to be Company B or leader a trying to be leader B or you’re trying to be someone else, but what can you learn from them and take on an integrate to help you in your own development. Yeah, yeah. What’s, uh, what’s coming up for you in the in the near future? What’s, you know, you being future focused? Pete, what’s what’s coming up?


Peter Karounos  39:22

Yes, big year next year. It’s we moving more into it into that life space, Murray, which you and I have had that conversation. There’s a recognition now I think a lot of people within organizations, corporates, if you like, really, really are thirsty for, you know, personal development, which is fantastic. And sometimes, you know, it’s not always available through the organization. I think a lot of people are now reaching out and saying, How do I accelerate How do I get more of this stuff? If not, if not through my organization. So you know, just having those conversations with people and providing a space for people to do that is a real focus as well. So yeah, setting up those sort of platforms for people to and looking at personal development again, in a different way. You know, there’s so much there Murray we’ve we’ve looked at personal trauma quite traditionally with organizations. And I think if we can start to look at non traditional ways of personal development, resilient mental health is now coming in so, so much into the conversation, which is excellent spirituality as well, in order to find that it becomes important to you know, there are internal forces at play that we can’t see them, but we know that they exist, you know, our own beliefs, and values. How do we unpack that a little bit more. And that’s what I really got from that Tony Robbins stuff is, you know, there is so much that we don’t see that’s on the inside that we need to tap into, and the analogy metaphor and never know which one to use, you learned about the concept that our personal life You see, like a garden. Yeah. So imagine that for a moment. Imagine yourself within and you see this garden? So as you’re imagining that garden, what does it look like? Are they no bids of flowers? is in good condition? Are they some weeds there as well. And so as you’re moving through this garden, it’s about looking for the weeds, ripping them out, planting new seeds. And that’s, you know, the little bit corny, but that’s that’s the process, isn’t it? That’s personal development, I need to go in, find the weeds written out, put new seats in there. And that’s the constant process. So having those images if you like, that visualization can help. And therein lies I think, you know, that makes it I’m working very closely with a good friend of mine, Isaac long, who’s a hypnotist and and, you know, we are talking about how do we incorporate things like hypnosis into personal development, all onto a training session, or coaching session, how you how you bedded down even more, how do you make it, you know, subconscious. So looking at some of those other tools that we know have an impact, but borrowing from different areas, psychology, technology, hypnosis, all this stuff, experiences, they all they all end to developing. So


Murray Guest  42:15

yeah, great. And I am excited for what that brings for the unique sort of partnership that you’re forming there to provide something which is locking in the learning and helping that do as we’ve talked about earlier, beyond the event. Yeah, I’m looking out the window at my garden at the moment. And we did some veggie gardens doing well this year. But it’s a great analogy. And we’ve got to water it got to look after it. If you want it to provide fruit and vegetables, how are you helping it grow? How and it’s the same for yourself. Like, if I don’t take the time to invest in my garden, we won’t get the harvest. So I’m going to have to take the time out for myself.


Peter Karounos  42:53

Yeah, we What do you think? How does that impact your mindset? You know, we’re having, you know, certain types of food that make us drowsy and sleepy, that might not be the best thing for a person. So it’s everything is not just a week, you and I talk about it, often from a mental point of view, but it’s also physical, its nutritional, it’s a hobby, it’s whole self.


Murray Guest  43:17

Totally agree. And you know what, sometimes someone might come and dump some fertilizer and you might need a bit of that. Yeah. It’s been great chatting with you today and having you on the podcast, I’m sure you’ll be back at some stage, because there’s plenty for us to discuss, and particularly what you’re doing with Isaac, when exploring and share that down the track. If people do want to connect with you online, where’s the best place to track you down?


Peter Karounos  43:48

Thanks Murray. Obviously, on socials, we’re probably the best place to go straight to the website, because that’ll direct people to where they need to go. So it’s www.peterkarounos.com. 


Murray Guest  44:03

it’ll be in the show notes, mate. That’s okay. But thank you. And I know on your website, you’ve got some great resources available there as well. So yeah, I’ll make sure people go and check that out. I really appreciate your your openness today and sharing a bit about your journey and why personal development is so important to you and the work that you do with the clients that you work with. And I’m glad that you’re fit and healthy after the the that 2020 has been. And thank you just for taking the time out to connect today. To help us wrap up. What is your definition of inspired energy?


Peter Karounos  44:41

Yeah, what a great question is that special insight that we get? It’s a It’s a feeling Murray. And so I get that feeling. I differentiate between thinking and feeling. It’s a feeling that we get that tells us this is the right thing to do. This is this is something I’ve absolutely needing to do so the more we can get in touch with that feeling that instinct. That’s where that inspiration is going to come from. And that takes time to to get it to. Can I, before we close my interest here of what you and I are doing, can I suggest an offer to the listeners, which I think they’ve got a lot of bits from the conversation that we’ve had. And we talked about the event & process, if listeners have any questions from what they’ve got from today, that really resonated and would like us to unpack that a little bit more that you know, if there’s questions that we can take from the listeners, and then do another follow up session to answer some of those. And that’s something I’d be more than happy to do with you as well. So,


Murray Guest  45:41

yeah, yeah. 100%. I agree. I think that there’s been a lot of value in this conversation. I’ve loved chatting with you through this. And you’ve shared some real simple tools and strategies and something might want to know a bit more about those. So yeah, reach out to myself or Peter on his website. And I’m sure we can talk to you a lot more about that. So yeah, great suggestion, Pete. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, all the best for the coming weeks and see you in 2021.


Peter Karounos  46:13

Sounds good. Thanks. Cheers.


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