Episode 50 – Heading into the Roaring 20s | Steph Clarke

In this episode I chat with Steph Clarke, where she shares insights from the last decade and predictions for the next.

Listen in your favourite app

Transcript

Murray Guest  

Steph, welcome to the roaring 20s podcast as we are going to get into a new decade and we’re going to talk about the past decade and the new decade coming up. You describe yourself as a facilitator bookworm cat lady. Is that the order? Or do the cats come first? How is it for you?

Steph Clarke  

It kind of depends on the day and depends on which cat so we’ve gotten, so on a small complete tangent, we’ve kind of got a cat who is laying asleep quite close to me at the moment. And when we got her my boyfriend was very much like, oh, yeah, fine. We can get a cat like he was pretty non-fussed. Because I’m definitely the cat lady. Anyway, this cat loves him and does not like me. She’s only, only about three years old. So we’re stuck with her probably for another like 10, 13 years. And it’s just the most ironic cat because she was she she also she hates other cats. We can’t even get any more. So I’m stuck with this cat that doesn’t like me. And my boyfriend’s turned into this massive cat sop.

Murray Guest  

That is beautiful. So you should call yourself a frustrated cat lady because you haven’t quite got there.

Steph Clarke  

I just go to other people’s houses and admire their cats and play with their cats instead.

Murray Guest  

And what sort of cat is it?

It’s kind of a domestic shorthair, moggie kind of thing. She was a, she was a foster. We had her for about six months as a foster. And then we decided to keep her because I couldn’t possibly split her and my boyfriend up.

Murray Guest  

Maybe some strategies you could try like you’re the only one that feeds the cat.

Steph Clarke  

Well, we did we have tried that. And he’s going away for three weeks in January, sort of February time. So I’m hoping that’s going to be the turnaround. 

Murray Guest  

Yeah just you know, some little messages, some subtleties that I’m here for you, I’m protecting you, giving you food.

Steph Clarke  

He’s abandoned you for three weeks. Yeah.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. Yeah. Put a photo up on him on a dartboard next to the cat’s bed. And a bookworm. Tell me about that. So you what sort of books, what is this, a thirst for learning? What, tell me more about that.

Steph Clarke  

It’s kind of a lifelong thing. So I was definitely that kid who my parents I’m sure were were very frustrated by it in many in many ways. But partly because I would not go to bed because I’d be up reading or be under the covers and trying to trick my parents into thinking I was definitely asleep. And yeah, but I like to sleep completely under the covers with a small light, just in case. So I was that child growing up. And so just really loved books. And my sister always laughs and still laughs at me 30 years on that my favorite book as a child was the kids encyclopedia. Yes, I was a complete nerd and but then kind of stopped reading as much probably in my early 20s. And things just, as I was starting a career, was busy working, etc. And just didn’t really read as much other than binging some books on holiday. And that was kind of more fiction. But now in probably the last five years or so I’ve really got into my nonfiction of some good recommendations and wanting to kind of take my career to new heights and learn new things, and particularly in a learning and development environment where I was looking for new ideas and things that I hadn’t seen in the organizations, countries, companies, etc, that I was working with, or for. So that was a great way of doing that. And after a good few recommendations, I got really into reading and was reading 30 or so books a year. And then I realized that I was struggling to remember all of the different, you know, what was that story in that book? Or was that one good? Or was that one better? Or in particular, it’s similar authors, or same author. So this year 2019, I started a podcast about books, so that I can remember and also to be able to recommend books to other people, because often people will then say to me, because I read a lot and say, Steph, what’s a great book on x. So I’d say, Oh, I can’t remember. Let me go back through my notes and look back through my bookshelf. Whereas now I can just be like, listen to episode 12.

Murray Guest  

So we’re gonna plug that podcast, we’re gonna get that out there for those people that do love reading and do love books. What is the name of your podcast?

Steph Clarke  

Steph’s business bookshelf.

Murray Guest  

Steph’s business bookshelf, I love it. And I’ll make sure that that’s shared as part of the show notes as well. I’m going to put you on the spot. What books this year that have been really sticky, have really stuck with you this year.

Steph Clarke  

Tt’s probably two. One of them was an everyone culture, which was a recommendation by my friend Annie and Robert Keegan and Elisa Leigh, who are Harvard professors, and in organizational development and psychology, if you’re kind of into that kind of thing. It’s fairly academic, but it was just such an affirming book for the type of work I want, I do and want to do more of which is really changing the way that organizations are run, designed, how people have developed that learning culture, and kind of really got me excited again, not that I wasn’t already but it got me even more excited about the work I’m doing and the potential of it, if it’s taken to that next level, and seeing that there are organizations out there who are taking those things to the next level. That was very exciting. I think and then one that I really enjoyed about productivity because I really like productivity as a topic is When by Daniel Pink.

Murray Guest  

I’ve heard of that one. But yeah, not read it yet. Yeah.

Steph Clarke  

So cool and some incredible stories and case studies around and science about how it’s not what we do it’s when we do it, that’s the important thing, or it’s not how we do it but it’s when we do it. That’s the important thing. So whether you’re typing or doing something more creative, or something more analytical, thinking about when in the day is the best time to do that. And even when in a year is the best time to do things and best times of the week, etc. So some really cool stuff in there that I took lots of ideas away from.

Murray Guest  

Well, I’m gonna check that out. Definitely. So my book recommendation for 2019. And I’ve got to be honest, I actually, can I have two? Can I have two?

Steph Clarke  

You have as many as you want.

Murray Guest  

You can’t hurt me by David Goggins. Really enjoyed that. And I’m seeing him in January in Sydney. So that’s very cool. But the other one is Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kennedy. And I’ll be honest, I’m doing that on audio book. And I thought I’ll just listen to that while I’m doing some work. And actually, no I’ve got to really focus and listen to this. But yeah, I really enjoyed that as well.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah, I don’t think Daniel came in as someone you can just listen to in the background. Generally, the his ideas are fairly, fairly thorough, shall we say?

Murray Guest  

Yes, lots of research, lots of depth. And I think it was just giving me that depth of understanding of some things I knew from other training that I’ve done. But yeah, came again for recommendation and yeah, totally enjoying that. Okay, cool. So as a facilitator, what is one of your passions that you love to facilitate around?

Steph Clarke  

I really like hard team conversations. So hard facilitation is one of the things that I if I am going to sum it up as in a fairly informal way would be would be that. So helping teams have the conversations that they need to, maybe that they’re not having or haven’t had, I’ve had the opportunity to work with some teams who had some fairly long, ongoing, dynamic challenges, shall we say? And the amazing thing, whilst they’re sometimes a bit stressful, and maybe a bit nerve wracking before you go in and walk in the room, because it really could go either way, depending on the characters and the personalities in the room. And there’s been some that I’ve done, where I’ve actually been warned by various people in the room about the various things that could go wrong, which is good, but also slightly nerve wracking. But the just that moment where you get where you ask the right question, or you build up to asking the right question, or you build up to something over the course of maybe two days or a day, and then it just opens up, and everyone starts to go, Okay, we, we can go there. Yeah, I just I just love that moment. And I love the the fact that you have to think, it doesn’t just happen by accident. So the intent and the design, and the prep that goes into getting to that point is the bit that I also really enjoy, because it’s a real challenge. And you don’t know what’s going to come out the end. It’s not like a recipe where you go, add three of these and one of those and two of that. And this magic thing will pop out the other end of two days. It’s quite dynamic. And you do have to change things as you go. And I do like that element to it, there is that that bit of unknown.

Murray Guest  

And I’ve had people ask me as a facilitator, like, how do you start a workshop? And how do you run something after lunch? And I’m like, it actually is such a big question, because there’s so much more to it. And one of the things that I would say is actually, the key thing is, as a facilitator, it’s reading the room, it’s reading the energy in the room, what’s going on in the room, not, here’s my agenda. That’s actually what’s going on in the room, and I’m getting the, you know, the hair standing up type thing, because when you talk about that space, where people are opening up, and we’re starting to really share, and having those conversations we’ve been avoiding, or being too tough or too hard, and we’re holding on to all that stuff from the past. Man, that is so cool. We get to that place.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. And also the fact that a lot of people will say to me, you know, how do you manage those things in the room? Or how do you kind of start the workshop? So it’s, and to me, the point that’s missing from a lot of those questions I get, and yeah, largely just because people haven’t had that kind of experience, which is fine, is that it doesn’t start in the room. Yeah, has to be something that you are doing and probably multiple things you’re doing before you step in the room and not just you yourself as a facilitator that you’re planning and things but the interaction you’re having with people beforehand so that they know they’re not spending the first two or three hours working out, Are you okay? Are we safe here? But we’re actually, and also is this even a good good use of my time? Yeah. Again, I’ve had a few times.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, me too. And I’d even say how are we start those those sessions? I’ve unfortunately experienced where it’s like, Okay, we’re on the clock. Bang. Let’s start this tough conversation. Like Hang on, we’re gonna lay some groundwork first.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. At 10am is tough conversation time. Let’s go.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, that’s right. Now, the past decade 10 years, what stands out to you? What would you love to share as some lessons you’ve got from that past decade?

Steph Clarke  

It’s a bit of a very big question, isn’t it. And it’s funny that you, when we had our conversation beforehand, or you sent some some notes through, some ideas for us to talk about, I hadn’t even thought about reflecting on that decade. So that was really cool to actually think about that. Because I’ve definitely thought a lot about the last year because it’s been a huge year in terms of leaving my corporate role, starting my own thing, properly working for myself, starting a podcast training as a Pilates instructor, getting a cat, you know, all of these different things in one year, that’s just one year. So I needed to lie down after I’ve thought about 10 years which. And for me, the last 10 years has actually been incredibly pivotal in terms of life work career. So 2009 was actually the year that I transitioned from accounting or started the transition from accounting into facilitation or into learning and development, initially into those kind of technical training and things like that for other accountants or other auditors at the time. So that was really fun. And so that was a huge pivot year for that, because I’d been working up to that for a few years or a couple of years beforehand. So that was the beginning. And then 2014, in 2014 moved to Australia. So that was another big pivotal moment, yeah, half decade, had my hair cut off in 2015. That was obviously a large, very significant part of my life. The 20s, the this decade or so 2009 to 2020 has been has been big. And it’s been pretty life defining and career defining in many ways, including the things I’ve just mentioned. But also some of the promotions and progressions I had in my corporate role that put me into different positions and different experiences, which were hugely again, career defining, because it really took me into different directions or, or affirmed a direction I was going into in terms of some of the development and experiences I had, and again, helped me find that technical accounting training wasn’t what I was always going to be doing, and gave me the opportunity to get into more soft skills or leadership development.

Murray Guest  

Seriously why are they called soft skills.

Steph Clarke  

I know that the hardest stuff anyway, yeah, difficult skills, let’s call them and then also into leadership. And then, and then more recently, in the last couple of years, working more with teams and team development and helping teams actually be better teams.

Murray Guest  

Yep. Can I ask what was it that guided you or inspired you to move into the l&d space?

Steph Clarke  

So I worked for one of the big four for a number of, 13 and a half years. And early on, so I joined them when I was 18. So I joined straight from school, didn’t go to uni. And I went through the training program and joined and became a qualified accountant in the first couple of years or three years. And so it’s one of those things, it’s like, okay, this is just clearly a great thing to do is going to be like trying to be an accountant, work, learn, get paid, etc, etc. Yeah, within about 12 to 18 months, I realized that actually really wasn’t that much fun. And whilst I worked with incredible people, and many of whom I’m still good, like some of my closest friends are still from from that period, we will get out alive, luckily, but we, one of the things that was really clear was when I went to the training courses, I was always thinking, what would I be doing differently. And even though that’s not something I had any experience in, I wasn’t, you know, a teacher or anything like that. But I was always looking at the facilitators and just being incredibly jealous that they were at the front of the room that will be attention, and that they got to do this for all, they could do with this creative stuff. And yeah, inside I was definitely assessing and silently and sometimes not so silently judging what they were doing, how they were doing it, etc. And so I thought well, actually, maybe that’s the fun thing, because it’s got the technical because I do yeah, I did like the I suppose the profession, in terms of I liked having a thing and it was technical. And there was problems to solve. And it was fairly complex at times, I did like doing the work. So combining the two, that creative element of the training and the teaching and thinking about oh, cool, I could create a whole case study around this and those things, plus then a teaching element plus then the profession to me was like an excellent out, because I didn’t know what else I was going to do.

Murray Guest  

What when I hear that and hear that was part of who you are, it sounds like you’re following your calling. And suddenly that was inside of you of like this is this is the stuff that I love. This is where I want to be. And now would you change it? Would you go back to be an accountant? I know the answer. 

Steph Clarke  

But you know, I would not, I would not not have done it again. So if I had my time again, I would still do the same thing because I just think the skills you learn going out to I was 18 years old going out to clients who were in their 50s 60s had been doing financial controllers financial directors have been doing that job for god knows how long and getting to ask them questions about their business, how things worked, what was going on who was who’s the person to talk to who knows more about this understanding, obviously, then the actual accounting and frameworks and things that they were using as well. You don’t get many, I don’t think there’s too many professions you get where you’re doing that kind of thing at that kind of level, at quite a young age. And honestly, that was unique in the sense that I didn’t go to uni and chose that option anyway, which isn’t something that is well, particularly in Australia is widely done, especially in that profession, in the UK, a bit more, which thing is a great thing. But also then the the transferable skills you get in terms of bit of you know, sometimes you fear auditors, element of conflict management, negotiation stuff, again, depending on what level you get to and how far you obviously progress. But yeah, I think there’s and also just from now running my own business, being able to talk to a balance sheet and a p&l. Again, that’s something that freaks so many people out there, and even just from a, you don’t have to run your own business for that skill to be useful. You can even as, as when I was in learning and development, being able to talk to sort of the more commercial side of things was very, very useful.

Murray Guest  

Yeah. And the other part that I would add, I can imagine you can put yourself into the shoes of the people you’re working with, because you’ve been there, you’ve done that. And that’s something that you can’t get unless you you’ve been there. So now let’s let’s sort of forget looking back and look forward. And think about the next decade. What do you think is… Actually I’m going to ask you, what is one of your hopes do you think for the next decade?

Steph Clarke  

That’s very existential. For for humanity, I think it is for humanity. I think there’s a bit of lacking,

Murray Guest  

You can go as big or as small.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. So I feel like we got to start that see, it’s a bit more humanity in the world, which would be good. Yeah, in terms of various different challenges that are being faced, I think there’s, there’s a new wave of thinkers, politicians, all of those things coming through, they’re not there yet. Unfortunately, we see that but there’s cracks and lights coming through, which is very exciting as a new generation, and start to edge into into the frame. That’s very cool. So I’m hopeful, very hopeful for that. Now to talk from selfish perspective. For me, it would be to really embed everything I’ve spent the last 10 years very intentionally working on and to almost have that inflection point in that pivot point of exponential growth and experiences and taking that now, compounding that and compounding last 10 years into new experience, harder client engagements, collaborations with awesome people, which was a goal, there’s one in particular that I’ve got lined up for next year, which I’m really, really excited about. So yeah, I think it’s to to embed that and it sounds kind of wanky, I suppose. Is that allowed? One of the things that I heard someone describe themselves or other people as, was professionally well known. So it’s that not that look for fame, because I don’t think that’s necessarily the right mindset. But that idea that you can be and I don’t really like the term thought leader anyway, because I think that sounds a bit too thinking about stuff rather than doing things, personally. But for me, it’s that professional well known thing around Steph can solve, or in the next couple of years, I’d love people to be thinking Steph can solve really hard team problems and help us make our way through and guide us through these murky waters of distrust or something that’s gone before or something that’s gone wrong or even just restarting if it’s a new team, new leader, etc. who has picked up something that’s maybe not been well looked after previously. So it’s that kind of stuff that I’m really excited about getting into and doing more of, and pretty hopeful that that’s the, that’s the direction.

Murray Guest  

Yes, yeah, I love it. I love I honestly, I love your hope for your humanity. And I totally hear you, I think with some leaders that are coming through that aren’t quite there yet. Totally hear you there. They’re also, I really liked the way you talked about that professional respect. And that professional well known, that you’re out there, you are making a difference. And creating a space where people are having those conversations they avoid. I like to think that the culture changes one conversation at a time. And it’s about how we create that space those conversations to happen. And I can hear how passionate you are about that. Now I’m going to give you the opportunity to have access to a sky writer and the sky writer is going to put a message around the Earth and everyone can see everyone can read it can’t be too big, you know, planes have got to get around. But what is your message you would love everyone to see to help them in life?

Steph Clarke  

Something I really live by and funnily enough, I thought about this just a couple of days ago. So good question. Something I really live by and I think would be good for others to take note of given some of the conversations I have with people around what they’re doing, what they’re happy with, what they’re not happy with, would be Regret the things you do, not the things you don’t.

Murray Guest  

Oh, I like that a lot. I haven’t heard that before. But I can really feel that because I think quite often, people can, I guess like the FOMO isn’t it, getting into that regret I didn’t do this. But you don’t know. So why regret?

Steph Clarke  

Yeah. And I think that some of the biggest life decisions I’ve made, you know, moving to another country, changing jobs, all of those things, that’s generally the litmus test I use is, am I going to regret doing this more than not doing it? Yeah. And the answer is, has inevitably been been yes or no, or whatever. And has made those decisions incredibly easy.

Murray Guest  

Yeah, great. I love it. And I think that’s a really powerful, simple framework to help people with stress with some of those decisions, and how to manage that and get, you know, focus back in what’s the decision in front of you? And, yeah, love it.

Steph Clarke  

Yeah, I think it comes down as well, you know, not this would necessarily go into Sky Writing. Because we would run out of sky very soon, there is a thing around knowing, knowing what a good life looks like to you, and knowing what good experience of life looks to you. And you know, who’s involved in that, what’s involved in that, what that looks like from all the different facets of life. And I tend to think of it as one big kind of melting pot rather than necessarily these like, weird sort of burners or silos or whatever that people tend to nurture, and think of as life and work and the family and whatever, it’s to me, it’s just all kind of mixed into one big old life. Yeah. But the, the thing is, for me, it’s going well, I know, for me a good life is one of experience, and one of not getting to my 150 years that I’m going to live, my deathbed, and think intermittent fasting Murray tell you what, it’s gonna keep me living forever. That’s a whole other podcast. Anyway, we’re getting to my deathbed or whatever, plus 100 age that is, and thinking, Oh, I wish I’d done this thing, which at the time seemed really big and scary, but really wouldn’t have been that big a deal. Because a lot of the time, I think it’s also I generally feel that most things you can get out of in some way.

Murray Guest  

That’s another podcast there as well. Okay, so I’ve absolutely loved chatting to you. I’ve loved your energy. I love your enthusiasm. I love that you go in places and have those conversations need to happen that don’t, just like I do. So. I’ve really connected with you on that. And, and just hearing about your journey and what you’ve done in the past, not just the last 10 years, but the last year, it’s been beautiful. Thank you for agreeing to come on here and have this chat. And I always ask where’s the one best place people can find you online? 

Steph Clarke  

LinkedIn. 

Murray Guest  

On LinkedIn. Okay. So we’ll make sure that is in the show notes. They can track you down there, wishing you all the success in the next 10 years. Based on the past 10 years, it’s going to be awesome for you as well. I can see it So Steph, thank you so much. 

Steph Clarke  

Thanks very much.